PFunk1606688187 Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 I think people's struggles with proper CCIP No-CR releases comes from the roll in onto the dive. I watched those v476 vids on their youtube channel and it really showed me the multitude of different angles and methodologies you can apply to the weapons delivery, but one thing I noticed that was pretty common to every single diving attack (and there are like 20 of them if not more in that channel, all different) was the way the pilot rolled in on the target. He had a waypoint set up to make it precise, but in general it seems to follow a pattern of being about 50 to 60 degrees offset from the bearing to target at the point when he rolls into the dive, then rolling and pulling hard so that your pipper comes into view just below the target and you can correct onto the target the easiest way possible in a dive: pulling up rather than side to side or even worse pushing down. The angle offset should be paired with an appropriate lateral range offset as well but I don't have a solid methodology for determining that yet so I'll leave that to someone else to comment on. Once I started to focus on repeating these methods my CCIP attacks just dramatically improved in performance. It didn't necessarily guarantee I hit something, but my percentage of attacks which lead to actually SEEING the CCIP pipper and dropping ordnance went to almost 100%. That left me with just the simpler problem of practicing putting the pipper on a target while diving diving at a high angle from thousands of feet away at over 400 knots. Also, retaining energy in a dive is important for the break off, as it not only allows you to return to at least 70 to 80% of your roll-in altitude, but also gives you enough jam on the way back up to throw some hard evasive jinks in, which is something I think people can forget about when only doing practice with helpless targets. Question: Now I have my own questions and that mostly relates to Desired Time of Fall and its corresponding HUD cue. Is there a way to figure out how to tweak this time of fall in a way that makes sense for the type of attack you're making? One thing I sometimes find is that if I set my DTOF I can sometimes dive below the required altitude before I get a comfy spot to release it. I suppose I could just experiment to find a good measure, but I know there are lots of very competent people on here with their CCIP pippers and I wanna know if there is a particular reason why you would even set this value, other than say to ensure proper time to break off and gain altitude in a low alt retarded drop. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.
timc Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 . Once I started to focus on repeating these methods my CCIP attacks just dramatically improved in performance. It didn't necessarily guarantee I hit something, but my percentage of attacks which lead to actually SEEING the CCIP pipper and dropping ordnance went to almost 100%. That left me with just the simpler problem of practicing putting the pipper on a target while diving diving at a high angle from thousands of feet away at over 400 knots. Question: Now I have my own questions and that mostly relates to Desired Time of Fall and its corresponding HUD cue. Is there a way to figure out how to tweak this time of fall in a way that makes sense for the type of attack you're making? One thing I sometimes find is that if I set my DTOF I can sometimes dive below the required altitude before I get a comfy spot to release it. I suppose I could just experiment to find a good measure, but I know there are lots of very competent people on here with their CCIP pippers and I wanna know if there is a particular reason why you would even set this value, other than say to ensure proper time to break off and gain altitude in a low alt retarded drop. I'm a huge fan of CCIP and dive bombing but the challenge if getting the pipper on target took me a fair bit of practise to get sorted. If you've got a good visual cue of your target location on the ground it makes things so much easier. I use field colour, road junctions and anything else vaguely distinguishing to spot where the target is and roll in on that reference. Approach the target with an offset angle of 45 degrees (or 90, 60, or 42.5 for that matter!) and you'll have the target area in sight the whole time. The point that you roll in can be measured against another reference; tha canopy or another part of the airframe. Hopefully you'll find getting the pipper on target much easier. By all means use a waypoint as your roll in point but for some reason (probably ineptitude) I find setting one up appropriate to the height and dive angle to be too time consuming. With regards to DTOF, Paulkilli (sp ?) or someone put some red flag munitions profiles up a while ago with settings fo the BDU33. These have various parameters including dive angle, DTOF, min release etc. I'll see if I can find it.
Eddie Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Question: Now I have my own questions and that mostly relates to Desired Time of Fall and its corresponding HUD cue. Is there a way to figure out how to tweak this time of fall in a way that makes sense for the type of attack you're making? One thing I sometimes find is that if I set my DTOF I can sometimes dive below the required altitude before I get a comfy spot to release it. I suppose I could just experiment to find a good measure, but I know there are lots of very competent people on here with their CCIP pippers and I wanna know if there is a particular reason why you would even set this value, other than say to ensure proper time to break off and gain altitude in a low alt retarded drop. The DTOF setting is specifically related to not only the type of delivery you're performing but also the planned airspeed, dive angle and altitude at release. For the Mk-82 at least, I put together a quick and simple set of tables you can use to select a DTOF. For other weapon types no data is publicly available at present, although one of our members is working on a weapon delivery planner than will be able to give you all the necessary values (including base altitude and range) for other weapons. I don't know when, or even if, we will release it to the public though at this time. In the mean time, if you have a mathematical mind you can use a triangle calculator to come up with some rough numbers for base distance and altitude. The DTOF cue is used as an aiming reference during the delivery, essentially you make the base turn onto the desired attack heading and dive angle and then place the DTOF on the target. The pipper will then move up to meet the DTOF cue on the target, and when the two overlap you hit the pickle button and you will be releasing your weapons at the planned release altitude. Simples. Edited November 15, 2012 by Eddie
PFunk1606688187 Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 With regards to DTOF, Paulkilli (sp ?) or someone put some red flag munitions profiles up a while ago with settings fo the BDU33. These have various parameters including dive angle, DTOF, min release etc. I'll see if I can find it. That'd be really appreciated. Those guys really have their shit together so anytime I find a new resource from them I covet it. EDIT lawl ninja'd. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.
timc Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 There's a link or two here that might help although the first two are broken I think. More stuff for you guys: HawgSmoke Mils: http://www.hawgsmoke.com/assets/literature/Hawgsmoke%20Mils.pdf HawgSmoke Inflight Guide 2008: http://www.hawgsmoke.com/assets/literature/IFG%20Hawgsmoke%202008.pdf HawgSmoke Inflight Guide 2010: http://www.virtual-jabog32.de/downloads/pub/Laud/HOGSMOKE_IFG_2010.pdf LASTE A-10 Bombing Guide: http://hogsofwar.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/laste-a-10-bombing-guide.pdf
PFunk1606688187 Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 The DTOF setting is specifically related to not only the type of delivery you're performing but also the planned airspeed, dive angle and altitude at release. For the Mk-82 at least, I put together a quick and simple set of tables you can use to select a DTOF. For other weapon types no data is publicly available at present, although one of our members is working on a weapon delivery planner than will be able to give you all the necessary values (including base altitude and range) for other weapons. I don't know when, or even if, we will release it to the public though at this time. In the mean time, if you have a mathematical mind you can use a triangle calculator to come up with some rough numbers for base distance and altitude. The DTOF cue is used as an aiming reference during the delivery, essentially you make the base turn onto the desired attack heading and dive angle and then place the DTOF on the target. The pipper will then move up to meet the DTOF cue on the target, and when the two overlap you hit the pickle button and you will be releasing your weapons at the planned release altitude. Simples. One last question, those figures you posted, is the airspeed representative of KIAS at the start of the dive or at the moment of weapons release? Cheers. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.
PFunk1606688187 Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 At weapon release. Much obliged. This might be what gets me over the hump on confidence with CCIP release. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.
timc Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 Here it is, not red flag as I posted but Hawgsmoke. http://www.scribd.com/doc/80796628/Hawgsmoke-Mils
Skitter Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Hi guys, anybody could explain what : - RT. "Lateral offset in Mils" - UP. "Vertical offset in Mils" ..are for in the weapon parameters please ? Cheers.
Glamdring Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Hi guys, anybody could explain what : - RT. "Lateral offset in Mils" - UP. "Vertical offset in Mils" ..are for in the weapon parameters please ? Cheers. What it says on the tin really. Offsets for the CCIP pipper. i.e. if you stick 5 in the RT field the bomb will impact 5 mils to the right of the pipper.
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