F-22 crashes, again (0:2)

[marcos]

http://news.yahoo.com/f-22-fighter-crashes-florida-pilot-unhurt-021737884.html

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. Air Force F-22 fighter crashed on Thursday at Florida's Tyndall Air Force Base, but the pilot ejected safely and was unhurt, a base spokeswoman said.

 

The F-22 Raptor, one of the most advanced U.S. warplanes, was returning from a routine training mission when it crashed about 3:30 p.m., spokeswoman Ashley Wright said.

The Lockheed Martin Corp plane caught fire when it hit the ground, but firefighters quickly put out the blaze, she said. The cause is under investigation.

 

Nearby Highway 98 was closed for about two hours as a precaution. The pilot, who was not identified, did not suffer any major injuries, Wright said.

 

The Air Force stopped flying the F-22 for five months in 2011 after some pilots grew dizzy at the controls. The Air Force blamed a shortage of oxygen delivered to pilots.

 

Two F-22 pilots told CBS' "60 Minutes" program this year they had stopped flying the fighter because of worries about safety.

 

The Defense Department said in July the Air Force was starting actions to lift flight restrictions over time, with most long-duration flights to resume this past summer.

[Namenlos Ein]

0:5, if YF-22 counts.

[vanveken]

0:5, if YF-22 counts.

 

+1 :)

[marcos]

Maybe absorbing all those radio waves is making the pilot dizzy.

[marcos]

Apparently it's not a write-off. It was a failure to increase power after retracting gear, much like this but with an F-22:

 

AFlvhoyLFUk

 

Pilot error this time.

[Namenlos Ein]

http://www.abc3340.com/story/20113712/f-22-fighter-jet-crashes-near-florida-air-force-base-picture

 

http://www.afsc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-080114-064.pdf — FA22 FLIGHT MISHAP HISTORY (2011)

 

http://www.afsc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-080114-062.pdf — F-15 FLIGHT MISHAP HISTORY (2011)

[marcos]

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2012/11/air-force-tyndall-f22-crash-report-111512

 

A pilot in training failed to advance an F-22 to “military power” during takeoff and prematurely retracted the jet’s landing gear, causing a mishap May 31 at Tyndall Air Force Base, Fla., according to an accident report released Thursday.

 

Without enough thrust during the touch-and-go training, the F-22 “settled back to the runway” and skidded along the ground to a stop, causing $35 million in damage to the stealthy jet. The pilot, assigned to the 325th Fighter Wing’s 43rd Fighter Squadron, exited the plane with minor injuries.

 

The pilot had recently transferred from another airframe and was on his second training flight after 10 simulator training exercises and more than 100 hours of academic training, the Air Force said at the time of the incident.

 

The squadron at Tyndall was part of Air Education and Training Command at the time of the crash, but has recently transferred to the authority of Air Combat Command. Another F-22 squadron is transferring from Holloman Air Force Base, N.M., to Tyndall, but the move is on hold while Congress and the administration hash out an agreement on the fiscal 2013 budget.

 

While most accident investigation board reports are released in full within 24 hours of the announcement of findings, the report in this case is only available through a pending Freedom of Information Act request, AETC spokeswoman Dianne Moffett said Thursday.

[tflash]

Marcos you are mixing up with another incident. Yesterday there was a crash of an F-22: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/air-force-fighter-jet-crashes-on-highway-near-base-in-florida-panhandle-pilot-ejects-safely/2012/11/15/d4ddbca2-2f76-11e2-af17-67abba0676e2_story.html

 

What you are referring to is an incident in May. The report on that was released yesterday also.

[marcos]

Marcos you are mixing up with another incident. Yesterday there was a crash of an F-22: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/air-force-fighter-jet-crashes-on-highway-near-base-in-florida-panhandle-pilot-ejects-safely/2012/11/15/d4ddbca2-2f76-11e2-af17-67abba0676e2_story.html

 

What you are referring to is an incident in May. The report on that was released yesterday also.

Oh??? So is that 3 now? Or 6 counting YF-22s? Wasn't there a hypoxia related one too?

[71st_Mastiff]

I hope they don't model that oxygen problem into the sim version? :thumbup:

[GGTharos]

No one knows if that accident was hypoxia related. The pilot may or may not have suffered from hypoxia, all that is known for sure is that he did suffer from disorientation.

 

Long story short, the environmental control system reported a hot bleed air leak and shut off bleed air (hot bleed air can melt parts of the plane that are not the engine - which is made to withstand those temps) which in turn disabled the OBOGS. The pilot may have had enough air in the hose to not suffer hypoxia.

 

Thick clothing, NVGs and the design of the emergency system pull handle all may have contributed to that loss.

[GGTharos]

This crash had nothing to do with oxygen.

 

I hope they don't model that oxygen problem into the sim version? :thumbup:

[GGTharos]

Looks like the 22 is doing pretty good so far.

 

http://www.afsc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-080114-064.pdf — FA22 FLIGHT MISHAP HISTORY (2011)

 

http://www.afsc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-080114-062.pdf — F-15 FLIGHT MISHAP HISTORY (2011)

[GGTharos]

That crash was attributed to pilot error ... problems were noted with the EOS design and cockpit room when NVGs and cold weather gear came into play. That could easily be the case for other aircraft as well.

 

So, obviously, there are more problems with F-22? :music_whistling:

[EtherealN]

Problems with high-performance aircraft? Surely you jest? This never happens!

 

http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20120906/175809233.html

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20110623/164802919.html

 

Seriously now. Accidents happen.

[marcos]

So the F-22's in-service KDR currently stands at 0-3?

 

I'm not sure how Viper off Top Gun would explain this.

 

Viper: During the Korean war USAF pilots enjoyed a 12:1 kill-death-ratio. Through Vietnam that ratio became 3:1 - pilots had lost some of their dog-fighting skills. In the early 21st century that ratio fell to 0:3 - manufacturers had lost some of their plane-building skills.:lol:

[EtherealN]

What are you on about?

 

Gripen: 0-3

Rafale: 0-5

Eurofighter: 0-2 (and let's not forget the Martin-Baker "oh we might eject you by accident" stuff)

 

But you know perfectly well that you're being facetious.

Edited November 16, 2012 by EtherealN

[aaron886]

Accidents happen. It's a risky business. People will interpret those accidents to mean whatever they want them to mean.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess pilot error. Seeing as pilot error is responsible for about 54% of all aviation accidents, outweighing the next highest offender by a factor of two, I've got good odds.

[GGTharos]

He would explain it like this:

 

"If you actually had put a bit of thought into this, you would understand that kill/death ratios are computed when in combat against an opponent."

 

What is this 0-3 BS? Accidents are accidents, they aren't combat. Stop your trolling.

 

So the F-22's in-service KDR currently stands at 0-3?

 

I'm not sure how Viper off Top Gun would explain this.

[almonds]

Long story short, the environmental control system reported a hot bleed air leak and shut off bleed air (hot bleed air can melt parts of the plane that are not the engine - which is made to withstand those temps) which in turn disabled the OBOGS. The pilot may have had enough air in the hose to not suffer hypoxia.

 

 

Agreeing with what you said.

Bleed air is around 600 degrees Fahrenheit, before ignition :o

[tflash]

Accidents happen. It's a risky business. People will interpret those accidents to mean whatever they want them to mean.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess pilot error. Seeing as pilot error is responsible for about 54% of all aviation accidents, outweighing the next highest offender by a factor of two, I've got good odds.

 

Well, fortunately many in the aviation business totally disagree with you, both on the "accidents happen" pseudo-wisdom and on the "guessing".

That's why I feel safe to fly.

[EtherealN]

Airliners are fighters since... when? ;)

 

Aviation professionals understand that there is a difference between transporting cargo (be it live or not) and producing and using top-line fighter aircraft that push the envelope of what is possible in aviation.

 

I invite you to take a quick tour through the early days of F-104, F-15, F-16 etcetera etcetera. The fact that were are in single-digit for these new 4.5 aircraft is, quite literlly, awesome. If it was anything like their predecessors, we'd be expecting at minimum two-digit fatalities by now. (In sweden, if you go to people living in the countryside that are 40+, quite a few of them will have personal witness of one of the accidents where authorities had to go pick up the remnants from an accident. My next door lady has several of these stories from J-32 - she has personally seen remains of pilots spread over her fields several times in her life.)

Edited November 16, 2012 by EtherealN

[aaron886]

Well, fortunately many in the aviation business totally disagree with you, both on the "accidents happen" pseudo-wisdom and on the "guessing".

That's why I feel safe to fly.

 

Somehow, I thoroughly doubt you weigh in as an aviation professional. Ironically, I do. I also know that accidents do "happen." Any time a human is involved in the loop, mistakes can and will be made. It's not "pseudo-wisdom," it's human physiology. Sit back and read a little more carefully before you post. Or just read, if you don't really know the subject matter.

 

Aviation professionals understand that there is a difference between transporting cargo (be it live or not) and producing and using top-line fighter aircraft that push the envelope of what is possible in aviation.

 

Not insofar as "accidents happen," which unfortunately holds true anywhere, but you are right indeed.

[EtherealN]

Well, what I meant is that the closer you get to "cutting edge" technology, the greater the natural risk of mishaps. And since combat aircraft naturally exist closer to the "cutting edge" in matters affecting safety than transport aircraft...

 

I remember one of our (swedish) politicians complaining about the Gripen programme with the words "one mishap is too much, and two definitely is" referencing the first two crashes of the SAAB 39 Gripen. It rings so bad in my ears since she should have known what the numbers were for the 32's (delta problems), 35's (double-delta superstall issues) and 37's (construction issues causing production aircraft to simply drop their wings after some material fatigue in the wingspars). Single-digit crashes in the development of a new fighter aircraft is compratively awesome. :P

[EtherealN]

You really cannot compare that junkpiles of metal with state-of-art cutting edge technology fighter like F-22.

 

Yes, I can.

 

I invite you to read previous posts in this thread. :)