Help with BVR?.... with video

[LithiumR]

 

I have played a lot of IL2 and other WW2 flight sims but not too much jets. I fooled around with Janes a long time ago but never really got good at it. So I have decent close combat dog fighting skills but not so much beyond visual range.

 

I set up missions in single player to practice. All AI is on Excellent and different planes so that I am up against a variety of different missiles.

 

There are some things that I don't understand though. Here are a few key questions...

 

1. When should I have radar on/off??

2. When should I have ECM on/off??

3. What I do in the video works on SP.... sometimes in MP but not always. What can I do better?

 

If you have any tips, suggestions, links to tutorials, or even a "you did such and such right" I'd really like to hear it. Thanks!

 

P.S. I have read the manual a lot. Doesn't mean I remember it all.... and I've watched the flankertraining.com videos. For the most part I understand the button pushing part (I think!) but not so much BVR tactics. I'd just like to know if I'm on the right track in the video?

[Jona33]

Have a read of this.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=32019

All you need to know about BVR, although it applies to falcon it makes sense for all.

[LithiumR]

Have a read of this.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=32019

All you need to know about BVR, although it applies to falcon it makes sense for all.

 

Wow.... awesome link. I'm about 3/4 of the way through it. This explained a lot about radar and ECM usage!! And told me at least part of what I am doing IS right:thumbup: (and a lot is wrong!)Thanks!

 

Question1: When I lock the bogey say at 30NM do I go str8 away towards him or I have to keep him in the gimbal limits?(single side offset)

 

Generally, you'll want to point directly at the intercept point (CATA) when you shoot (maximising your A pole), but other than that brief moment, your nose will not be pointing directly at the bandit (reducing his A pole). If he comes right at you, let him. Minimise his A pole by taking an offset. When you are ready to shoot, maximise your

own A-pole by turning into him, shoot and take an offset, immediately reducing his A-pole again. This is often enough to defeat a similar bandit. In multiship engagements, you might want to close for a shot as soon as possible, as when you're the offensive arm of a bracket, in which case, you'll be full burner and CATA.

Edited December 31, 2012 by ZoSo

[GGTharos]

Turning right in front of the missile that has been launched from a relatively close range (10nm qualifies) is not necessarily a good idea. It works right now just because these missiles don't have any energy conservation measures built in, and some of them just plain can't pull enough g's ... but all that will be fixed eventually.

Edited December 31, 2012 by GGTharos

[LithiumR]

Turning right in front of the missile that has been launched from a relatively close range (10nm qualifies) is not necessarily a good idea. It works right now just because these missiles don't have any energy conservation measures built in, and some of them just plain can't pull enough g's ... but all that will be fixed eventually.

 

I know what part of the video you are talking about..... what would the right move be?? I tried a lot of different things. Some worked sometimes (split S) but not as reliable. I would like to know what would have been better??

 

(I hope this question doen't read wrong, I really am curious. If I can do it better I'd like to understand how.)

[GGTharos]

That depends on a lot of things. Definitely don't turn into a missile launched at close range (in good parameters, because if you Rmin'ed it you probably want to turn into the bandit that launched it - but that would be a pretty short range).

 

Does your mission profile/tactics allow you to disengage?

Are you using active missiles?

 

If it's 'yes' to both of the above, then you can simply turn around and run once you missile goes active, then come back again.

 

If you have to be 'the wall', then instead of running maybe you want to just put the guy on the beam or drop into the notch after your missile is active.

 

If you want to be even more aggressive and take an even bigger risk, you can keep him on the gimbal and try some vertical S'. That's not a split S, it's just 30 deg up, 30 deg down alternating to drain his missile of energy. Note that of course once you get so close that the missile's motor has barely stopped or is still burning, that won't be good enough, and you need to do a last-ditch maneuver (orthogonal roll) which may be very difficult to perform successfully against modern missiles.

 

Other factors beside your mission profile: So you launched your missile, and his is coming in, but he's going defensive.

At this point, there's no reason why you can't turn away. If he's slinging semi-actives and he dropped lock though, you can press him harder.

If he's slinging actives, you might want to drop into the notch and re-attack as soon as you trash that missile.

 

Basically, which tactics/techniques you use depends very heavily on what it is that you want to accomplish.

 

Ie. if you are to defend an AWACS, maybe you'll consider losing your plane to do so.

 

If you're just to stay over a CAP but you have a back-up flight waiting for you, maybe you can fire some missiles to break up the bandit's formation and retreat and let the back-up flight take them on (and now you back-them up instead).

 

The amount of choices you can make is just enough to make it complicated and just short of impossible.

[Frostie]

What can I do better?

 

Watching your vid it seems that you need to work on your radar elevation management. When using TWS you need to keep the target gate over or at the same range as the target so as you can tell what altitude your radar is looking at that targets range. When you were in TWS your elevation read out as 0-24(0-24,000ft) at 40nm range but when the bandit reached 30nm he was already climbing and reached 20,000ft which at 30nm your elevation max altitude was 0-20, at this point you lost lock during TWS and struggled to keep a lock because of this.

 

Get your gate over the target and keep him centralised in your elevation eg. bandit is at 20,000ft for 30nm then set your gate at 30nm and your elevation at that range to read approx. 10-30.

 

You need to learn that human players are more often tricky and will turn away and get low to stay alive, they will try and notch your radar or just extend away from your missile and then re-engage much later this is why you lose them on RWR because their radar is facing away from you and they drop of scope because of their evasive maneuveurs ie. lower than where you're radar is looking or in the notch or just running away. Another problem to look out for is the hidden bandit that uses your target as bait as he flanks you while you're focused on the one guy, so pay extra special attention to other contacts on the RWR and get your head out of the cockpit and look around to be wary of missile trails coming in at your 3/9 a tell tale sign of an incoming IR missile. One of the worst things you can do online is get too target focused, because there is always another bandit.

 

Edit:

Be warned I am very drunk posting this, so I shall not take any responsibility for your virtual death.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Frostie

[dooom]

See video in my sig - its a good two cockpit perspective. Sure errors are made tactically but you get a good idea of what each player sees

[winchesterdelta1]

Thanks for all the info. I can use this aswell for sure. :)

[Devilman]

hey mate, im happy to run some mp head to head with you (with labels on) to help.

[LithiumR]

hey mate, im happy to run some mp head to head with you (with labels on) to help.

 

I'd be down for that:thumbup: but I've been playing with out labels and doing okay. Labels optional.