A-10 USB engine gauges

[whartsell]

These gauges look great. The only thing missing is the 10's needle on the temp and the 1s needle on the Rpm. I use those all the time to make sure the engines are in sync on TO and cruise

[hegykc]

So that's what those are for! Yeah I will implement them into the design no problem. Just wasn't sure how they're connected to the main needle.

[whartsell]

So that's what those are for! Yeah I will implement them into the design no problem. Just wasn't sure how they're connected to the main needle.

 

should just be a 10:1 reduction gear and you would be good to go

[Hansolo]

Keep up the good work :thumbup: and thanks for the update. Looking forward some building pictures of your 3D printer :music_whistling:

[Gadroc]

So, to everyone wondering what happened to my project.

 

I found out that self made 3D resin printers are just now becoming a reality. Machines that would and still do cost hundreds of thousands, you can now make for a 1.000 bucks or so, provided that you have a substantial degree o knowledge on how these things work. Hardware, electronics and firmware programming.

 

After months of research and learning, I am starting to build my own machine. This has overtaken the priority over acrylic sheet designed instruments, because when I finish building this tool, only the imagination is the limit to what can be built. And not only prototypes but functional parts and in quantities and 100% authenticity.

 

So bare with me, still some months of work left to do, but when it's done we can have truly great sim products that an average simmer can afford.

 

Have you done the math for build time/cost into that decision? While the output product is incredible resin printers are SLOW even compared to fused filament printers that take 15-30 mins to print a whiste. In addition the resin will likely be much more expensive per volume than the a acrylic sheets. For personal part building they are great but it will likely be a very poor machine to build lots of low cost parts which seemed like your original intention. Of course you could be planning on casting or injection molding based on those parts as well, but I can't see you getting enough volume to meet your quoted prices using those techniques.

[Charles Darwin]

Not sure what the plan for the 3d printer is either but if the design can be moved over it might help speed up production.

 

http://www.ponoko.com

 

even if you only use them to help speed up the 3d printing, though they might be able to help with other stuff too

[hegykc]

Have you done the math for build time/cost into that decision? While the output product is incredible resin printers are SLOW even compared to fused filament printers that take 15-30 mins to print a whiste. In addition the resin will likely be much more expensive per volume than the a acrylic sheets. For personal part building they are great but it will likely be a very poor machine to build lots of low cost parts which seemed like your original intention. Of course you could be planning on casting or injection molding based on those parts as well, but I can't see you getting enough volume to meet your quoted prices using those techniques.

 

Build time is from 2-15 minutes per mm. And the only time cost is in vertical movement. Doesn't matter if you print 1 part, or 50 parts side by side. As opposed to FDM printers which have a time cost in both vertical and horizontal movement.

 

So for example a fillament printer will print a single stick grip in 8 hours, but if you put in 50 grips to print that's 50x8=400 hours printing time. (and they have about 20% failure rate, so after 399 hours the print might fail and you just wasted a bunch material and time)

 

Resin printer on the other hand might take 16 hours to print that single grip, but you can shove in as many as you want side by side, so If I put in 50 grips, it'll still be 16 hours to print and that is where the magic is. And I won't even mention the finish quality which is equal to plastic injection molding.

 

Cost is the same. 1kg fillament 40$, 1kg resin 40$.

Online printing services charge 3-5$ for 1 cubic cm + postage. With my on build, that goes down to 0.04$ per 1 cubic cm.

 

I have been experimenting with a fillament 3d printer for the past month or two, and already have some prototypes done. And I've been researching in depth different printing techniques for the last year so I'm pretty sure I got this :D

I've just been over optimistic about the build cost, It might be a grand for the prototype, but a larger size printer is gonna be 2-3 times that.

 

And I don't plan on making panels or any other 2d shapes, those are perfect for laser cut acrylic sheet. But instrument covers, knobs, needles, internal parts, gears etc...

Edited March 26, 2013 by hegykc

[metalnwood]

What sort of laser is used for this? The ones that I have seen looked like some kind of galvo laser was being used for speed but it still takes time to traverse the table, if your table is twice the area of a smaller one it still takes longer than the same machine working on the smaller area.

 

What is the resolution of the diy machines? I think the cheap 3d extrusion printers are around 150 microns.

 

Have you got more information about it, other forums? I have no need for a 3d printer at the moment but it certainly interests me from a technology point of view.

[Gadroc]

Some of the DIY resin printers use a projector instead of a laser. These would have a constant time per z layer. Unfortunately you can't scale them with out loosing resolution (aside from in essence building multiple of them in one frame). I'd be very interested in what your planing on building which could scale to 50 grips for under $3k.

[hegykc]

Yes the printer will be projector based, but even the projector will be a DIY 2560x1600 solution which would give a 25x15 inch build area. If I succeed in my plans, if not, a used 1024x768 projector is a fall back plan.

 

There are still a couple of problems to solve with a large build area so I still have some experimenting to do.

 

Finish quality should be great even if the resolution is not because there is still some uncured resin when you take the part out of the vat, and when the leftover resin cures it smooths the surface out.

 

200 microns is a very satisfactory surface finish. Even with a 1024x768 projector that would be a build area for 4 grips at a time

[metalnwood]

I may have this completely wrong because I have not read up on using projectors for this but if my maths is about right..

 

200 micros is around 127 DPI if we translate the pixels in the projector. So for a 1024x768 projector we have an area around 200mm x 150mm.

 

The output I have seen from 3d printers at 200 microns doesnt do it for me for knobs, the ridges are too much and they have to be filled and then smoothed over. Similar to what you say about the left over resin filling in the gaps I know that people smooth over the 3d parts from extrusion printers by leaving them in acetone vapour for a while.

 

Does it rely on just the projectors resolution? What about issues like dot pitch, some projectors can have a lot of space between the pixels, does this impact resolution on this kind of printer?

 

 

Where can I see examples of stuff printed out on diy printers like this? I almost get the feeling you are trying not to say :)

[hegykc]

Your math is correct, at 200 microns it would be a 200x150mm build area. As I said I'm building my own 'curing engine' that would give me 4 times that.But it's going to require additional problem solving, of which I will not go into details yet because I might go commercial with it since it is not yet solved.

 

Do not compare FDM or fillament based printers with DLP ones, they have nothing in common resolution wise.

 

I wish I had a step by step guide or some secret info for you:) Then I would have built it yesterday. I don't. Al I did was type in 'DIY dlp 3d printer' in google, looked at some pics and started from there.

 

I have read through hundreds of links, and have yet to hear about dot inch problems. All you need for resolution is the last pixel, borderline pixel. Doesn't matter if inside of the object has some microns of uncured resin.

[metalnwood]

OK, you are using a DLP projector. Dot pitch is not really an issue then as DLP has extremely small spaces compared to LCD. I think only LCOS was as close when I was researching a while back.

 

scrap that, it was D-ILA.

Edited March 27, 2013 by metalnwood

[hegykc]

We are close!

 

The electronics for the gauges are almost here. One arduino board + 16 channel pwm unit.

That means a 17$ arduino + 1$ per every 16 servo motor driven pointers. Or about 20$ to drive all your cockpit gauges. (with 12-bit resolution)

 

A member is working on a software bridge between arduino and DCS, which he will present once it's ready.

 

Not only that but you can hook up LEDs this way too.

There's also multipliers for buttons/switches so one can connect several hundred of them to a single arduino.

Same goes for analog inputs like controls axis.

 

Don't know if a single arduino can be programmed to control it all (or if it has the processing power for): LEDs/servos + buttons/switches + analog axis but, worst case scenario, you'd need a couple of them.

And at 17$ a piece, it doesn't really make a difference.

 

The coding side of it all will need some manpower so, any arduino experts out there, please do come forward :)

Edited April 22, 2013 by hegykc

[whartsell]

Good to hear. I have also been working on making my Hogkeys (pokeys interface for dcs) Software arduino capable. I have the POC completed and am no getting my software ready to handle the arduino. I have currently built working firmware for analog inputs,digital inputs,digital outputs and will be moving on to servos and steppers soon. My firmware will also be customizable to allow "custom" boards e.g one dedicated to UFC,CDU,etc.

 

A single arduino will not have the power to do it all,Not to mention the data requirements of pushing it all out a single com port.

[hegykc]

Awesome!

 

I've seen examples of 80+ switches connected to a single arduino without a problem. Also 64 digital + 48 analog inputs also without a problem.

Though not for integration with a sim.

 

So maybe separate them to have one arduino for digital/analog input, one for digital output and one for servo control?

 

Anyway I think arduino is THE way to go. All the products marketed for sim enthusiasts can never ever be priced as low as a 17$ ebay arduino.

 

I will read up on your software threads, looks promising!

[whartsell]

That's right. I'm just breaking them up into functionality. The two largest factors to consider are latency ( how long does it take to iterate through multiplexed devices) and how long does it take to cram that through a com port limited to 115k baud. Those two factors will determine how fast you can get/send updates to/from the sim.

 

Also if your handy you can build your own arduino on a breadboard for about 8USD. That doesn't include the built in USB-serial port.

What chip are you using for 16ch pwm

[Waxi]

I use an Arduino Mega 2560 and 5 high speed multiplexers to multiplex the 80 digital inputs of the CDU and the AAP switches down to 5 inputs pins of the Arduino.

 

There is no noticeable delay and I even make my Arduino wait for 10ms after each iteration over all inputs.

[hegykc]

16ch pwm

http://playground.arduino.cc/learning/TLC5940

 

And there is a breakout board with resistors and voltage regulators for LEDs:

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10616

 

CD4021b for digital multiplexing and CD4051 for analog multiplexing (if needed).

 

It is going to get very interesting!

[whartsell]

I use an Arduino Mega 2560 and 5 high speed multiplexers to multiplex the 80 digital inputs of the CDU and the AAP switches down to 5 inputs pins of the Arduino.

 

There is no noticeable delay and I even make my Arduino wait for 10ms after each iteration over all inputs.

 

Thats alot of hardware overkill for 80 inputs. If you use a switch matrix you can increase that number exponentially. with a "normal" arduino and one 3 8ch multiplexers you can get 96 switches in a switch matrix. That how i have been building things.

 

Also for the price point of a mega I picked up a pokeys board. It has 128 inputs 7 analog inputs 80 outputs 6pwm and 16 7 segment displays. There are even some pins left for about 4/5 encoders. Of course that is configurable so you can change it to suit your needs but that is how mine is configured.

 

For a full cockpit you will need about 330+ digital inputs,34 analog inputs 80 digital outputs and about 18 encoders. Thats not taking into account any customizations for cmsp and such.

 

Switch matrixes while harder to debug when something goes wrong are great for easy of wiring and getting the most inputs vs actual input pins. I use ribbon cable with a 25 pin d-sub and it handles 128 inputs. plus you just "piggy-back" them. I ran the ribbon through each console and when i add a new panel i just crip an IDS dsub connector and done.

 

with just two of those multiplexers you have you could easily build a 256 switch matrix and use only 8 pins on your mega. Once again latency would need to be measured but it should be pretty quick to send that data as it is only 32 bytes. Scanning it also be faster than your direct reading of 80 inputs most likely.

[whartsell]

16ch pwm

http://playground.arduino.cc/learning/TLC5940

 

And there is a breakout board with resistors and voltage regulators for LEDs:

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10616

 

CD4021b for digital multiplexing and CD4051 for analog multiplexing (if needed).

 

It is going to get very interesting!

 

i use the same chips for the digital and analog multiplexing. as for the pwm im partial to the PCA9685 as it uses i2c to control the pwm so you dont have to constantly pump data for pwm thus freeing up the processor to do other things.

 

PCA9685 running 16 servos

[hegykc]

Alright even better! Thanks!

 

I'm new to the whole arduino thing but I'm learning as much as I can so I can build my hardware around it.

[Waxi]

Latency will probably also be no issue when using a switch matrix, which seems to be more efficient than my approach where latency is already unnoticeable (what was the intended message of my previous post).

 

I agree that there are probably more efficient ways to wire up digital/analog inputs/outputs and I appreciate learning about them. However, since this were my first steps in building electronics, I was looking for a simple starting point, in particular with regard to debugging. More sophisticated solutions will come as I advance my electronics skills :book:

 

The Arduino Mega is not only planned to be used for running the digital inputs of the CDU and AAP. As I continue building my pit, I will hook more components to it and extend its firmware accordingly. Furthermore, when EOS and its integration into HELIOS is stable I can easily make my Arduino talk to HELIOS directly. Its firmware already uses a very similar protocol that can be easily replaced with the EOS protocol stack.

[whartsell]

Latency will probably also be no issue when using a switch matrix, which seems to be more efficient than my approach where latency is already unnoticeable (what was the intended message of my previous post).

 

I agree that there are probably more efficient ways to wire up digital/analog inputs/outputs and I appreciate learning about them. However, since this were my first steps in building electronics, I was looking for a simple starting point, in particular with regard to debugging. More sophisticated solutions will come as I advance my electronics skills :book:

 

The Arduino Mega is not only planned to be used for running the digital inputs of the CDU and AAP. As I continue building my pit, I will hook more components to it and extend its firmware accordingly. Furthermore, when EOS and its integration into HELIOS is stable I can easily make my Arduino talk to HELIOS directly. Its firmware already uses a very similar protocol that can be easily replaced with the EOS protocol stack.

 

I agree completely with you. I started with the pokeys initially to remove one piece out of the equation. Since i was creating new software to interface with I wanted one known entity. If i had started with the arduino i would have been starting from scratch with unknown firmware,unknown hardware and unknown software. Now that I have confidence in my software and patterns the next step in the progression is the move to arduino. I was really excited for EOS but since its moving slower than me I wanted to make my own. My protocol is based "loosely" on the same pattern that EOS uses so when it matures my hardware could easily be upgraded to support that as well.

[whartsell]

Alright even better! Thanks!

 

I'm new to the whole arduino thing but I'm learning as much as I can so I can build my hardware around it.

 

One more thing, with regards to implementing hardware/software for servos Pololu Makes a great servo board with up to 24 channels. If you don't mind using 3rd party and want an off the shelf solution. Their interface and API is incredibly simple to implement and would take all the design work out of your plans. Their boards are from 19-40 USD so they are pretty cost effective especially if you take into account R&D for creating a board and firmware. I have been thinking about getting one to play with