Detecting jammers with radar off?

[DJ 9mm]

is it possible to detect other aircraft using ECM without turning the radar on? it seems like the radar should not have to be transmitting in order to receive a jamming signal. right now the only way i know of to detect jammers is to turn the radar on.

 

related question: is it possible to launch a HOJ capable missile (and hit the target) without turning on your radar? could you "mad dog" an AIM-7 on a jamming target?

 

this question applies to all radar equipped aircraft, but if there are differences between aircraft please do point them out. thanks.

[theChris]

im no aeronautical engineer but aim7s are sarh so they need a radar to home them and i dont think the enemy radar jammer is gonig to do that for you though i may be wrong im 60% sure im right lol

[Cali]

No to both of your questions. You need your radar on to see if someone is using their jammer. The AIM-7 is a sarh guided missile, meaning it needs the aircrafts radar to guide it to it's target. Without the aircrafts radar, the AIM-7 is blind.

[KLR Rico]

Well according to the manual (p 109/110), HOJ attacks are passive. So although the radar is on, there's no transmission when locked on a jammer.

 

The AIM-120 or AIM-7 HOJ attack is passive as well. You have to do the ranging yourself and the missile flies a pure pursuit path with a low Pk.

[GGTharos]

Depends on the jammer, within the context of FC/DCSW right now ... no.

 

is it possible to detect other aircraft using ECM without turning the radar on? it seems like the radar should not have to be transmitting in order to receive a jamming signal. right now the only way i know of to detect jammers is to turn the radar on.

 

related question: is it possible to launch a HOJ capable missile (and hit the target) without turning on your radar? could you "mad dog" an AIM-7 on a jamming target?

 

this question applies to all radar equipped aircraft, but if there are differences between aircraft please do point them out. thanks.

[fitness88]

What about Home on Jaming [HOJ] an Aim-7 can home in on the enemy's jamming signal, provided he doesn't shut it off.

[GGTharos]

Again, it depends on the jammer - if there's a standoff jammer that's jamming on that particular frequency, maybe.

 

Self protection jammers only jam when you STT the target typically to break the lock - that is the type of jammer that fighters are equipped with, but they're not correctly represented.

 

A jammer can't jam everything, if it doesn't pick up your radar signal, it doesn't have anything to jam.

 

What about Home on Jaming [HOJ] an Aim-7 can home in on the enemy's jamming signal, provided he doesn't shut it off.

[fitness88]

Again, it depends on the jammer - if there's a standoff jammer that's jamming on that particular frequency, maybe.

 

Self protection jammers only jam when you STT the target typically to break the lock - that is the type of jammer that fighters are equipped with, but they're not correctly represented.

 

A jammer can't jam everything, if it doesn't pick up your radar signal, it doesn't have anything to jam.

 

In FC3 isn't the modelling to allow for HOJ?

[GGTharos]

It does, but using the HoJ capability is usually not worth your while.

[DJ 9mm]

ok so sounds like it's not modeled in DCS, but just out of curiosity, can it be done in real life? seems like it should be technically feasible, and tactically valuable.

[fitness88]

ok so sounds like it's not modeled in DCS, but just out of curiosity, can it be done in real life? seems like it should be technically feasible, and tactically valuable.

 

Yes using either the aim 120 or aim 7 in FC3 , you can fire against ECM. You will have a less probable hit than with a lock.

 

From P.110 of the FC3 manual

Home On Jam (HOJ) Mode

When the radar and radar warning receiver (RWR) detects active electronic countermeasures (ECM), it displays on the VSD a vertical series of hollow rectangles along the azimuth of the jammer. This ECM indication is that of a noise jammer and is termed a strobe. In order to lock the target using its own ECM strobe, place the TDC on any of the hollow rectangles and press the [Enter] key to designate. Note that you are not locking a target on radar. Once the ECM emitter is locked, the series of rectangles will have a solid, vertical line running through them; the ECM emitter is along that azimuth. The VSD is now in home on jam mode, the HOJ indicator appears on the VSD and HUD. The AIM-120 and AIM-7M missiles can both be launched in this mode when a radar lock is not possible due to enemy ECM. Note that when fired in this mode, the missile will fly a less efficient pure-pursuit trajectory and the probability of kill is much less. Also note that no range information is provided. As such, a call to a friendly AWACS is suggested to get ranging information. Attacking in such a mode provides the enemy with no warning because a HOJ attack is a completely passive attack.

At the short ranges, the radar’s energy overcomes the energy output of the noise jammer and the radar gets enough radar reflected energy back from the target to form a track. This is termed "burn through." At burn through, the radar will automatically transition to STT mode regardless of prior designation mode (LRS or TWS). ECM burn through is generally 15...23 nautical miles.

[GGTharos]

In real life it doesn't do what you think it does. In RL the HoJ mode is basically the ability to launch the missile (depending on the missile, too) shortly after the target has started jamming (as opposed to inhibiting the launch) and the radar may possibly attempt to do some ECCM things.

 

Some ECM is not detectable by machine, like for example clean Vc (closure) jamming, which a human might notice but if he doesn't and he launches, the missile shot won't hit anything.

 

ok so sounds like it's not modeled in DCS, but just out of curiosity, can it be done in real life? seems like it should be technically feasible, and tactically valuable.