Black Shark I don't want to wait

[Kusch]

"Russian Federation Air Force at the moment have only 5 Ka-50. There are plans to finish 3 more which are on production line in Arsieniev, after this, production of Ka-50 will be not continued."

 

Piotr Butowski,Kamow Helicopter for ground forces 12/2005

[Shaman]

I'm sure this is because of the $$$, or rather lack of them. Russian forces will soon be either very reduced in numbers, or will be very behind with hightech equipment compared to other countries. Question is what are they going to do about it.

It is very interesting why Kamov will not export any Ka-50s just to keep production going.

[Yellonet]

So what is the story behind Black Shark if the helo almost isn't used?

[Sundowner.pl]

It is very interesting why Kamov will not export any Ka-50s just to keep production going.

Maybe because it's more expensive to maintain than any other design ? ;)

 

Russians have chosen Mil Mi-28 for their future attack helo, Kamov bird is way too expensive and its effectiveness is to low, compared to other modern designs like Mangusta, Longbow, King Cobra or Tiger.

[Wags]

That does not appear to be an accurate statement. When I was in Moscow back in October to meet with the team, I learned that 20 Ka-50 have been produced and two of those have even seen combat.

 

-Matt

 

 

"Russian Federation Air Force at the moment have only 5 Ka-50. There are plans to finish 3 more which are on production line in Arsieniev, after this, production of Ka-50 will be not continued."

 

Piotr Butowski,Kamow Helicopter for ground forces 12/2005

[Force_Feedback]

It is very interesting why Kamov will not export any Ka-50s just to keep production going.

 

Well, they tried with the Ka-52K recently, but Boeing came and stole the contract away, as they always do, adn then there's the obvious "discount" when comes to buying arms from the US for their allies.

[D-Scythe]

That does not appear to be an accurate statement. When I was in Moscow back in October to meet with the team, I learned that 20 Ka-50 have been produced and two of those have even seen combat.

 

-Matt

 

Even still, 20 is still a pretty low number. If production actually does stop, there would be more B-2s in the USAF inventory than Ka-50s in Russia's.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Well, they tried with the Ka-52K recently, but Boeing came and stole the contract away, as they always do, adn then there's the obvious "discount" when comes to buying arms from the US for their allies.

 

Kamov couldn't undercut Boeing, price-wise? I find that hard to believe. There are lots of different considerations here, aside from evil, corporate conspiracies. As someone who regularly works on Russian aircraft IRL, as well as Western, I can tell you that there are MANY differences...its like learning another language. Perhaps training of maintenance crews is also a concern? ;)

[Alfa]

Even still, 20 is still a pretty low number. If production actually does stop, there would be more B-2s in the USAF inventory than Ka-50s in Russia's.

 

Yeah but fewer Commanches :icon_wink

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[Kusch]

I think more glory and money could bring Mi-24.Ka-50 only for curiosity.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

In my view, combat helicopters are not very useful in modern combat. A squadron of Longbow helicopters was sent to Albania to participate in (unlawful) attack on Yugoslavia. They were not even able to fly due to complexity of the technology and the real life challenges on nowadays battlefield.

 

Unfortunately two of the Longbows crashed and some of the crew man died. God bless them and their souls.

 

So, it would not surprise me if Russians are not building any more Black Sharks.

 

Production of Commanches is canceled all-together.

[Force_Feedback]

The Ka-50 is an old design, older than the mi-28, back then, Kamov "won" the competition, now the mi-28 will enter "mass" production (as in 8 units per year), and the Ka-50 is going to die out. Maybe the mi-28 was a better choice after all

[Sundowner.pl]

Yeah but fewer Commanches :icon_wink

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

All RAH-66 are prototypes, so when we think that way... Russians have fewer MiGs 1.44 than USA have Comanches... and such a conversation is pointless.

 

The Mil Mi-24W or Mi-35 would be far better to implement to this sim than Ka-50, but then again let's think about it. The whole 1.2 idea is for Single player only. Having one helo in multiplayer with "high performance jet rich environment" is pointless, those Hokums will be like fishes in barrel, nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, only wait to get smacked by Sparrow missile. Now having two birds for example Ka-50 and AH-1W - that would be something different, because the blue side would not be "jets only", and players could do helo vs helo kind of missions.

[Yellonet]

In my view, combat helicopters are not very useful in modern combat. A squadron of Longbow helicopters was sent to Albania to participate in (unlawful) attack on Yugoslavia. They were not even able to fly due to complexity of the technology and the real life challenges on nowadays battlefield.

 

Unfortunately two of the Longbows crashed and some of the crew man died. God bless them and their souls.

 

So, it would not surprise me if Russians are not building any more Black Sharks.

 

Production of Commanches is canceled all-together.

American hardware doesn't seem to be made for "real" wars.

M-16... reliability and effectivness issues..

Fighters... need clinically clean runways..

...and so on.

 

Russian hardware on the other hand...

AK-47, durable and high powered

Fighters... running just fine with grassy dirty runways..

 

*digging in*

[Yellonet]

All RAH-66 are prototypes, so when we think that way... Russians have fewer MiGs 1.44 than USA have Comanches... and such a conversation is pointless.

 

The Mil Mi-24W or Mi-35 would be far better to implement to this sim than Ka-50, but then again let's think about it. The whole 1.2 idea is for Single player only. Having one helo in multiplayer with "high performance jet rich environment" is pointless, those Hokums will be like fishes in barrel, nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, only wait to get smacked by Sparrow missile. Now having two birds for example Ka-50 and AH-1W - that would be something different, because the blue side would not be "jets only", and players could do helo vs helo kind of missions.

CAP flights, terrain masking and hovering would keep the helos alive, low and slow is the way to go ;)

[192nd_Erdem]

The Mil Mi-24W or Mi-35 would be far better to implement to this sim than Ka-50, but then again let's think about it. The whole 1.2 idea is for Single player only. Having one helo in multiplayer with "high performance jet rich environment" is pointless, those Hokums will be like fishes in barrel, nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, only wait to get smacked by Sparrow missile. Now having two birds for example Ka-50 and AH-1W - that would be something different, because the blue side would not be "jets only", and players could do helo vs helo kind of missions.

 

Yeah and Helo vs Helo would be the killer of realism.

 

No thanks :)

 

I think it will be no problem with helos being integrated into game.On the contrary,it will just be more immersive and atmospheric.Squadron cooperative missions now will be more complex,and realistic.

 

If you're talking about how they play in Hyperlobby by "jet rich environment",all I can say is public play is nothing but a deathmatch with no meaning.Get into a serious squadron :)

 

They were not even able to fly due to complexity of the technology and the real life challenges on nowadays battlefield.

 

Russian birds are made to be simple,easy to maintain and operate from anywhere;so they're not that "sensitive girls" like their American counterparts :)

 

Also,it's really sad Russia is not getting these birds anymore.Turkey is still considering Ka-52 for our Attack Helicopter programme,I hope we'll get it.

[GGTharos]

In my view, combat helicopters are not very useful in modern combat. A squadron of Longbow helicopters was sent to Albania to participate in (unlawful) attack on Yugoslavia. They were not even able to fly due to complexity of the technology and the real life challenges on nowadays battlefield.

 

Unfortunately two of the Longbows crashed and some of the crew man died. God bless them and their souls.

 

So, it would not surprise me if Russians are not building any more Black Sharks.

 

Production of Commanches is canceled all-together.

 

COmmanches failed because the concept wasn't all that sound, and then execution was very poor - essentially it was faulty and cost too much, and it wasn't very useful - not for the amount of money that was spent on it.

 

As for LongBows ... apaches in all forms have done fairly well in whatever wars they did participate in - the ones that didn't participate in Kosovo were stopped due to (IIRC) lack of inter-service cooperation and in general due ot the fuct that didn't have a whole lotof ground forces to support. Pretty much most of the ground-pounding was done by A_10's and F-16's and harriers, with the help of unmanned drones to spot things sometimes.

[GGTharos]

American hardware doesn't seem to be made for "real" wars.

M-16... reliability and effectivness issues..

Fighters... need clinically clean runways..

...and so on.

 

Russian hardware on the other hand...

AK-47, durable and high powered

Fighters... running just fine with grassy dirty runways..

 

*digging in*

 

How strange that this fragile hardware that isn't made for 'real' wars keeps on going, huh? :)

[GGTharos]

 

 

Russian birds are made to be simple,easy to maintain and operate from anywhere;so they're not that "sensitive girls" like their American counterparts :)

 

 

Really? Neither the Germans nor the Indians had anything nice to say about the maintainability of their Russian aircraft ...

[192nd_Erdem]

I'm sure it would be worse if they had to maintain American birds :)

[Sundowner.pl]

CAP flights, terrain masking and hovering would keep the helos alive, low and slow is the way to go ;)

Low and slow you can go, when you have trees behind which you can hide. Here the trees are transparent for any optics and radar. In this sim, in this helo you can live only in mountain areas... and only for a while.

 

Hovering won't do you good, you can't beam radar in the helo, because there is no way it will miss those huge rotating blades.

[Buckler]

I'm sure it would be worse if they had to maintain American birds :)

How is that?

 

And can you please enlighten us how are Russian birds "easier to maintain" and how are American birds "sensitive girls?"

[Sundowner.pl]

I'm sure it would be worse if they had to maintain American birds :)

Like F-4F ? The Germans have no problems with them, in mather of fact they sold all of their MiGs to Poland for one Euro and modified the Phantoms to fly them until EF Typhoon comes in to the service.

[Alfa]

All RAH-66 are prototypes, so when we think that way... Russians have fewer MiGs 1.44 than USA have Comanches... and such a conversation is pointless.

 

How is that?

 

a). the RAH-66 was the latest attack helicopter project undertaken by the US, while the Ka-50 is a similar development for Russia.

 

b). there have been no Ka-50(single seat) simulation although this helo is in operational service, while there have been several Commanche sims despite the design being dropped before entering service.

 

I dont think the above comparison is pointless - what is pointless however, is to compare it to the MiG 1.44 design project which, as the designation should indicate, wasnt even intended to enter service in its actual form, but rather served the purpose as technology testbed.

 

The Mil Mi-24W or Mi-35 would be far better to implement to this sim than Ka-50

 

....in your opinion.

 

but then again let's think about it. The whole 1.2 idea is for Single player only. Having one helo in multiplayer with "high performance jet rich environment" is pointless, those Hokums will be like fishes in barrel, nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, only wait to get smacked by Sparrow missile.

 

How does having two attack helos - one for each "side" - change that?.

 

Now having two birds for example Ka-50 and AH-1W - that would be something different, because the blue side would not be "jets only", and players could do helo vs helo kind of missions.

 

"Helo vs helo kind of missions" - name me one actual real world example in which such a scenario has actually occured. I think you need to re-think your perception of what attack helicopters are about.

 

Anyway, I can see the attraction for a flyable attack helo for each side, but then who says that ED doesnt have plans for other helicopter additons for the future?

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[Sundowner.pl]

"Helo vs helo kind of missions" - name me one actual real world example in which such a scenario has actually occured. I think you need to re-think your perception of what attack helicopters are about.

To name one: Iran-Iraq war: AH-1 vs Mi-24

 

Anyway, I can see the attraction for a flyable attack helo for each side, but then who says that ED doesnt have plans for other helicopter additons for the future?

The 1.2 is the last addon for LockOn so no more flyable aircrafts/helo after that