Russian radar

[theChris]

I have a quick question. In the controls of the russian radars there is the option to select target size (r alt and + or -) and change scan zone range (r cntrl + or -) but these both change the exact same thing. The only difference between the two is that the L CNTRL moves it up an down in 5 unit increments, while r alt moves it up quickly as it is held down.

 

I believe from watching the tutorial that it was needed to input the scan zone range when slewing the radar up and down. Please help as i would like to know why changing the target size the radar is looking for changes the scan range. Thanks in advance.

 

This can be seen particularly in the mig-29s controls under sensors.

[fitness88]

I have a quick question. In the controls of the russian radars there is the option to select target size (r alt and + or -) and change scan zone range (r cntrl + or -) but these both change the exact same thing. The only difference between the two is that the L CNTRL moves it up an down in 5 unit increments, while r alt moves it up quickly as it is held down.

 

I believe from watching the tutorial that it was needed to input the scan zone range when slewing the radar up and down. Please help as i would like to know why changing the target size the radar is looking for changes the scan range. Thanks in advance.

 

This can be seen particularly in the mig-29s controls under sensors.

 

Are these correct or a typo?

[theChris]

Good spotting, yes it is a typo i mean right cntrl.

[Frostie]

To understand it you need to imagine your radar as a torch beam and picture the centreline of that torch light beam coming out of the nose of your aircraft.

 

Now when you set the 'target range' at 10km and elevation at +3 (+3000 metres above your current altitude) the centreline of your radar is now looking at an angle that relates to '10km ahead of you/3000m above you'. If you then change that 'target range' to say 80km then your torchlight angle will greatly reduce because now your centreline is looking '80km ahead of you/3000m above you'.

 

It is important to understand that the radar will see the same distance no matter what 'target range' you set.

 

The idea behind this is for GCI to relay settings to the pilot so he can find the bandit. If you know the bandits range and altitude then you can fine tune your radar to look directly at him otherwise for general use the default 'target range' and using elevation and azimuth to scan is good enough.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Frostie

[159th_Falcon]

Here's a thread going into the subject a little more detailed.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=54965&highlight=russian+radar+settings

 

Must be some pictures around somewhere illustrating the radar beam on different range/elevation settings.

[fitness88]

To understand it you need to imagine your radar as a torch beam and picture the centreline of that torch light beam coming out of the nose of your aircraft.

 

Now when you set the 'target range' at 10km and elevation at +3 (+3000 metres above your current altitude) the centreline of your radar is now looking at an angle that relates to '10km ahead of you/3000m above you'. If you then change that 'target range' to say 80km then your torchlight angle will greatly reduce because now your centreline is looking '80km ahead of you/3000m above you'.

 

It is important to understand that the radar will see the same distance no matter what 'target range' you set.

 

The idea behind this is for GCI to relay settings to the pilot so he can find the bandit. If you know the bandits range and altitude then you can fine tune your radar to look directly at him otherwise for general use the default 'target range' and using elevation and azimuth to scan is good enough.

 

Good explanation Frostie,

I look at target range and elevation as an intersection point.

Like using the Xy axis on a graph.

[theChris]

Hi, thanks for all the information... But either i am not understanding the concept properly (which i thought i have been since i posed this thread) or i have poorly worded my thread.

 

I understand that the manual distance input scan zone range, r cntrl - or =(stated previously as + in my thread, this could be everyones misunderstanding else people may just be skim reading my post) is a variable put into the electronics of the radar. This variable then would go into an equation with the height variable, and the radar will specify its search +height(in km) over the specified distance.. What i mean is you put the estimated range to target at a certain height, and the radar adjusts the height of its waves (for example if i did not input manual distance and enemy was 1km above me it would search 10km infront and 1km up. So if the enemy was far ahead my radar would be searching way above him.). note: you only put in manual distance to target if you are slewing the height (i.e. target is higher or lower then your radar).So correct me if i am wrong from this paragraph.

 

Anyway this post is not about how to use this feature but why do the controls state different meanings for the same thing, with two different key bindings?

 

"In the controls of the russian radars there is the option to select target size (r alt and + or -) and change scan zone range (r cntrl + or -) but these both change the exact same thing."

 

Clearly r alt and - or = does not change the estimated target size. For example if i was told by awacs "boogies coming hot bearing bla (my 12) 7km altitude (while i am 6km altitude) 60km and closing". I would then set my radar scan range to 50-60km and height to +1, This is fine. What if these boogies were remote control planes? I know i will set my estimated target size 10x smaller. With the push of the old r alt - i am now at ... wait what 30km estimated distance to target? This can't be right. All it did was change my range to a closer target, now my radar assumes the target is 1km higher at 30km so it will search higher then the real threat at 50km (+1 km altitude).

 

Do you see what i mean.

 

I was hoping this spicify target size function would help me spot predator drones and f-16a's more easily. However it does not.

 

In conclusion i am either horribly wrong, this is a bug, or there is more too it then i understand and somehow decreasing the range of the target somehow increases the chance of picking up a smaller target at the same range of the estimated boogie. I think it is a bug.

Edited April 23, 2013 by theChris

[GGTharos]

This has nothing to do with target size. It's about radar elevation. There is no target size adjustment for the fighter radars in FC3, and generally speaking you won't find a setting that 'makes it easier to pick up lower RCS things'.

[theChris]

This has nothing to do with target size. It's about radar elevation. There is no target size adjustment for the fighter radars in FC3, and generally speaking you won't find a setting that 'makes it easier to pick up lower RCS things'.

 

hey, this is where i found it. dcs world singleplayer --> options --> controls --> mig-29s --> censors--> scroll down to "target specified size increase/decrease (r alt - or =)

 

Based on the english above(the command above specify size) "target lock" (which allows you to lock onto your target), the target specify size implies that i am able to specify my "targets"(blip on radar) "size". The entire point on this thread (before anyone posted) was to find out why this command would not work and only changes the "Radar scan zone" but in a different way (instead of 2-5 increments the increments increase as command is held down).

 

However, now i am unsure if this command is meant to be there or not. If it is as you said Tharos, should the command be reworded to "radar scan zone increase/decrease" as well? Or is my english failing me (i took english throughout highschool just to chill and watch films etc).

[EvilBivol-1]

Target Size is used to set the target's wingspan when employing the 30mm cannon in Funnel mode. It is a separate function from the Target Range setting when in BVR mode. From the FC3 Flight Manual p. 45:

In Gun Funnel mode, a graphic funnel is displayed on the HUD to indicate the calculated flight path of cannon rounds. The distance between the sides of the funnel is based on the Target Size setting. Target Size is an approximated value of the target’s wingspan. The Target Size value can be adjusted in increments of 10 by using the [RCtrl--], [RCtrl-+] keys or in single digits by using the [RAlt--], [RAlt-+] keys. The default Target Size value is 20 meters.

[theChris]

Target Size is used to set the target's wingspan when employing the 30mm cannon in Funnel mode. It is a separate function from the Target Range setting when in BVR mode. From the FC3 Flight Manual p. 45:

 

Okay, but why is it under censors and why does it change scan zone range.

[EvilBivol-1]

Okay, but why is it under censors and why does it change scan zone range.

Because when you are in BVR mode, these commands ([RCTRL +] / [RCTRL -] and [RALT +] / [RALT -]) set the Target Range. When you are in Gun Funnel mode, the same commands set the Target Wingspan ("size").

 

They are two different functions used in different situations, but share the same keyboard commands.

[theChris]

Because when you are in BVR mode, these commands ([RCTRL +] / [RCTRL -] and [RALT +] / [RALT -]) set the Target Range. When you are in Gun Funnel mode, the same commands set the Target Wingspan ("size").

 

They are two different functions used in different situations, but share the same keyboard commands.

 

Thanks for the clarification. But do you think in future it will be taken out of bvr controls? Only to avoid confusion.