junae Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Howdy!! Friends, I have a little question regarding firing radar and IR missiles: Let's assume I'm in the Su27 and I'm loaded with R27ER and ET missiles, if I lock my radar on an enemy and fire the ER then turn on EOS, lock and fire ET, the first one (SARH missile) will still be guided by my radar? Can radar and EOS work toghether? Is this a good/effective technique? Thanks in advance!!! ;) =FN= Six o'Clock Member of Falcões da Noite Squadron Florianopolis :: Brazil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazehound Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 EOS and radar work together, but doing what you are referring to is not how to do it. If you put your radar on and lock up a bandit, the EOS is already on, so you can launch an ET when the missile has a heat signature to chase. If you 'turn eos on' (ie turn radar off) your SARH missile will go ballistic. VVS504 Red Hammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S77th-konkussion Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 NO- the ER must be guided to impact or miss. Turning off the radar will render the ER ballistic- and I don't mean "really mad" :p For the MOST part -it's not a good idea to rely on the EOS outside of visual range. If a datalink from an EWR or AWACS is provding you with aspect information- then the EOS could be used to silently acquire a target as you close on him. When you acquire him depends on that aspect. Again- if he's head on- not only is your ability to find him on EOS severely crippled, but he has a great chance of seeing you too. again I stress- with AI this is almost meaningless as they posess all knowing situational awareness and EOS provides NO IFF information. The best way to really see how well it works is online for sure. You'll figure out what works in a hurry. :cool: [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=43337&d=1287169113[/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junae Posted December 16, 2005 Author Share Posted December 16, 2005 If you put your radar on and lock up a bandit, the EOS is already on, so you can launch an ET when the missile has a heat signature to chase. If you 'turn eos on' (ie turn radar off) your SARH missile will go ballistic. You serious? Hummmm... I didn't know that... And I think this isn't explained in the manual, is it? ;) Anyway, really nice to hear it from you, thanks for the info! Cheers!!! =FN= Six o'Clock Member of Falcões da Noite Squadron Florianopolis :: Brazil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellonet Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 EOS and radar work together, but doing what you are referring to is not how to do it. If you put your radar on and lock up a bandit, the EOS is already on, so you can launch an ET when the missile has a heat signature to chase. If you 'turn eos on' (ie turn radar off) your SARH missile will go ballistic.Actually the first poster is right. The radar is not turned off just because you turn the EOS on. And it is good idea to throw a SARH and a IRH in pair. i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junae Posted December 16, 2005 Author Share Posted December 16, 2005 NO- the ER must be guided to impact or miss. Turning off the radar will render the ER ballistic- and I don't mean "really mad" :p For the MOST part -it's not a good idea to rely on the EOS outside of visual range. If a datalink from an EWR or AWACS is provding you with aspect information- then the EOS could be used to silently acquire a target as you close on him. When you acquire him depends on that aspect. Again- if he's head on- not only is your ability to find him on EOS severely crippled, but he has a great chance of seeing you too. again I stress- with AI this is almost meaningless as they posess all knowing situational awareness and EOS provides NO IFF information. The best way to really see how well it works is online for sure. You'll figure out what works in a hurry. :cool: Ok Koncussion, but my question was if Radar and EOS can work together, and what's the right procedure to do so: I have to turn on Radar then EOS, or (as Gazehound said) only radar? =FN= Six o'Clock Member of Falcões da Noite Squadron Florianopolis :: Brazil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellonet Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Ok Koncussion, but my question was if Radar and EOS can work together, and what's the right procedure to do so: I have to turn on Radar then EOS, or (as Gazehound said) only radar?You can have radar and EOS on at the same time, yes. i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junae Posted December 16, 2005 Author Share Posted December 16, 2005 You can have radar and EOS on at the same time, yes. Thanks for your help Yellonet, hehe. And to make this work, all I have to do is turn on the radar (then EOS turns on automatically?), hehe I'm sorry just to make sure that's how it works... =FN= Six o'Clock Member of Falcões da Noite Squadron Florianopolis :: Brazil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellonet Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Thanks for your help Yellonet, hehe. And to make this work, all I have to do is turn on the radar (then EOS turns on automatically?), hehe I'm sorry just to make sure that's how it works...You turn on BVR mode '2', then the radar 'I', and if you then select a IRH missile the EOS will turn on automatically. If you do it the other way around, BVR mode, EOS and then select a SARH missile the radar is put in standby (in order for you to not be detected) to be able to get a fast radar lock on your 'EOS lock'. I must do some testing... I'm not 100% sure about this. i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazehound Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Thanks for your help Yellonet, hehe. And to make this work, all I have to do is turn on the radar (then EOS turns on automatically?), hehe I'm sorry just to make sure that's how it works... Yes :D If you are in BVR mode pressing I will turn on radar and EOS will assist it. There is no need to activate EOS manually. In WVR modes if your radar is off you will be using EOS only, if you press I radar will assist, if you press O you will turn off EOS and I have no idea why you can. The best thing to do to understand this would be to watch the symbols on the left of the HUD (they are in the manual and th symbol depend on wether you are using cryllic hud or not). VVS504 Red Hammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellonet Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Ok.. did some testing. If you turn on radar and then select a IRH missile the EOS is not turned on but it really doesn't matter as the seeker on the missile is then slaved to the radar. You can however turn on the EOS while the radar is on but that doesn't really do anything except show a 'T' on the HUD ;) I was right about when you turn on the EOS and select a SARH missile the radar is put in stand-by mode though. and if you then turn it on ('I') you can immediately launch the missile, provided that you are in range. HUD symbology (I think) T - EOS ON N - Radar ON A - Radar Stand-By Mode i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudikoff Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Ok.. did some testing. If you turn on radar and then select a IRH missile the EOS is not turned on but it really doesn't matter as the seeker on the missile is then slaved to the radar. You can however turn on the EOS while the radar is on but that doesn't really do anything except show a 'T' on the HUD ;) To see if it actually does anything you would need some stealth airplane in front of you under an angle that makes it not visible on radar scope, but visible with EOS.. :) No, really ED, does this actually do anything (some interleaved mode for the scope) or it's just for show? i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg. DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?). Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazehound Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 To see if it actually does anything you would need some stealth airplane in front of you under an angle that makes it not visible on radar scope, but visible with EOS.. :) No, really ED, does this actually do anything (some interleaved mode for the scope) or it's just for show? If you lose lock on (eg) a beaming target EOS takes over if in range. In the left edge of the HUD you will see A and T, meaning an EOS lock but radar has lost the target. VVS504 Red Hammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S77th-konkussion Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 The EOS backing up the radar will do nothing for the ER. The ET obviously can lock on via EOS, but again- not a good idea from the front. The IR missiles simply do not track as effectively from the front. Over/undermodeled in LOMAC? I don't know for sure. Based on my luck with front-aspect ET's lately- I think NOT. ;) If you exit the STT mode- the ER is no longer guiding. The EOS is not a tool for head on BVR type engagements. It has many uses- this type of fight is not one of them. Using your first example- Head on engagement-If you want to send an active missile like the ET at someone (with less than ideal position) you'd be better off maintaining your lock on him on radar and firing one. (range.) At least then he will receive no launch warning. If the enemy has active radar missiles.... you can go on & on... "It depends" -as always- plays a prominent role here. [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=43337&d=1287169113[/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellonet Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 The EOS backing up the radar will do nothing for the ER. The ET obviously can lock on via EOS, but again- not a good idea from the front. The IR missiles simply do not track as effectively from the front. Over/undermodeled in LOMAC? I don't know for sure. Based on my luck with front-aspect ET's lately- I think NOT. ;)I made a little track about that ;) http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=12568 i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junae Posted December 16, 2005 Author Share Posted December 16, 2005 I made a little track about that ;) http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=12568 Nice yellonet! :) I'll download it later when get back home... Cheers!!! =FN= Six o'Clock Member of Falcões da Noite Squadron Florianopolis :: Brazil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellonet Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Nice yellonet! :) I'll download it later when get back home... Cheers!!!Well... to be honest the track is only about frontal engagement with the ET missile... not about the radar/EOS question. i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junae Posted December 16, 2005 Author Share Posted December 16, 2005 Anyway, it's gonna be nice to watch the action, I still have a lot to learn... LOL Thank you =FN= Six o'Clock Member of Falcões da Noite Squadron Florianopolis :: Brazil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S77th-konkussion Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Yeah- some days are better than others. I have also had great success with ET's from front aspect. I just know I cannot count on them. I cant watch it now- but if that track is against AI and not a live player- completely irrelevant. [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=43337&d=1287169113[/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellonet Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Yeah- some days are better than others. I have also had great success with ET's from front aspect. I just know I cannot count on them. I cant watch it now- but if that track is against AI and not a live player- completely irrelevant.I made the track to illustrate how you can fire the ET missile without lock and let it lock on the target after launch, thus significantly increasing the frontal aspect engagement distance. I don't see how that is irrelevant. Besides, not everyone plays online. i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junae Posted December 16, 2005 Author Share Posted December 16, 2005 You got my full support Yellonet! hehe!!! To me it's very relevant... ;) =FN= Six o'Clock Member of Falcões da Noite Squadron Florianopolis :: Brazil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 It assumes the player will fly into the basket though - and inexperienced players probably will. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S77th-konkussion Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 It is because the AI knows all no matter what. A live player must make decisions & take risks. Some live players will run right into it- usually a few times before it's carved into their memories. The lack of launch warnings and all that means nothing against the computer. But hey- watch away. I don't care. I'm sure it provides the gist of it, and that's valuable. Just don't assume it's like that online. [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=43337&d=1287169113[/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellonet Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 It is because the AI knows all no matter what. A live player must make decisions & take risks. Some live players will run right into it- usually a few times before it's carved into their memories. The lack of launch warnings and all that means nothing against the computer. But hey- watch away. I don't care. I'm sure it provides the gist of it, and that's valuable. Just don't assume it's like that online.I certainly don't, I'm expecting it to be quite effective online, if people aren't expecting it they will certainly go down. i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazehound Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I certainly don't, I'm expecting it to be quite effective online, if people aren't expecting it they will certainly go down. I think it would be limited online - most players will see and expect the launch, once they see the missile trail with no launch warning, they will pop flares and throttle back & your et is wasted and you are likely dead. Its great for following on a radar shot though, since the target often will not be head on and will be less likely to see the trail. VVS504 Red Hammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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