RUAF vs Big 6 EUAF

[NOLA]

NOLA, if you want to claim evidence, show it.

 

If, for some reason, you cannot show it - then don't argue.

 

And people, drop the insults.

 

Sigh, what is up with you people. As said, all the evidence for 12+ alone in the link i gave. What evidence did he give? None, what so ever. The ONLY thing he has provided is saying that there is 12, and that is it. Nothing to support it. I have done my part of proving.

 

But fine, since one click is so damn hard, here is a list i made within 4 min (literally) from the link i gave:

 

Red:

 

01

03

09

22

23

32

34

37

 

Blue:

 

10

16

60

91

92

93

94

95

592

 

Total: 17

 

Even if one removes 60 and 592 which are prototypes, that still leaves 15. Any questions?

 

Free to check those numbers as every single one of them appears in the link i posted. And that is only 2.5 pages. The list will go on if one checks all the six pages, probably to around 25-30.

 

 

Now, i have proven my part, now it is his turn to prove that there isn't 13 or 12.000001 frames, but 12 exactly or under 12. He did say after all:

 

 

So - there is a DOZEN of MIG-31BM in the RuAF ATM, at best.

Edited September 16, 2013 by NOLA

[tflash]

It would be interesting to study this question seriously and try to map for the European borders of Russia/CIS the number of (strike)fighters deployable on both sides. We should also discuss what is a meaningful range. Do we count French airforce into the pack? Or only the northern and central european defense line? Do we include UK assets that can go pretty far on the North Sea? There are also Nato airplanes protecting the baltics.

 

I guess the EURFORCES have a lot of Gripen, EF2000, advanced F-16's, Hornets equipped with at least AIM-120B and in many cases AIM-9X/Iris T/Asraam, and some good strikers. I guess also on the Russian side apart from the Flankers the growing numbers of SU-34 and the upgraded SU-24 are a strike force to count with, not too deep in Russia. I'm not sure Mig-31 is meant for/ nearby the European theatre? The biggest problem for air power is that integrated air defenses on both sides are quite impressive.

[EtherealN]

Sigh, what is up with you people. As said, all the evidence for 12+ alone in the link i gave. What evidence did he give? None, what so ever.

 

Which makes two people with nothing to show. Including you. ;)

 

You made a further claim not only of 12, but of lots more, and you also say you have this evidence on hand. So show it. If you cannot for whatever reason, then fine; but you can't claim evidence that you can't show - such "evidence" is useless to the rest of us.

 

If you have the evidence, show it. Goes for all of you. Saying "I have the evidence and you should accept it but you don't get to see it" is childish and helps no-one, including yourself. Now, if it is the case that the imagery you have collected is copyright protected and you therefore cannot publish; just say so. It is not strange that people want to see your evidence when you directly say that you have it, is it? If I quote some performance numbers on an aircraft, and say "well, I have data", they'll want to either have page numbers for the manual/doc in question, or an explanation as to why I am unable to share said things.

 

Attacking others for perceived laziness is also just not on. Play nice, or don't play at all. Please.

[NOLA]

Which makes two people with nothing to show. Including you. ;)

 

Ahem. I posted pictures showing 6 of them in one place at one single base, didn't i? (that had nothing to do with the base he identified btw)

 

I posted link that has a total of 28 different BM frames, didnt i? All of them are here, feel free to check if my count is right:

 

http://russianplanes.net/st/Mikoyan-Gurevich/MiG-31BM

 

And you cannot be serious; Are you truly suggesting i should have posted a picture of every single BM i have in my list? :lol:

 

Again, the link above easily proves there is over 12 BM's. I can be wrong, but i am pretty sure 28 > 12, so he lost there by default. There are plenty of frames that are not documented by RP.net link, but it sure as heck documents more than twice of 12.

[Pilotasso]

What are the external differences between a MIG-31BM and the older models? I think they had different wing tip due to different ECM equipment but Im not sure.

 

EDIT: this:

 

 

I don't see it in the pics you posted, but again Im not sure about the external differences.

[NOLA]

What are the external differences between a MIG-31BM and the older models? I think they had different wing tip due to different ECM equipment but Im not sure.

 

EDIT: this:

 

 

I don't see it in the pics you posted, but again Im not sure about the external differences.

 

That picture is actually MiG-31M. M was soviet era program and was very heavily modified MiG-31. It is extremely different from vanilla or BM MiG-31, and it would be easier to list what is alike (would be a very short list) rather than what is different... It never went into production, but it still holds interesting record(s). ;)

 

BM however is an update/modernization of the vanilla in service ones. Well, they have been updating MiG-31B, but they have run out of those now. I could go into detail about what is B and what is not and what will be updated now that they have run out of B's, but i won't bore you. :P

 

It is pretty easy to spot difference between vanilla MiG-31 and BM, three major details:

 

- New pylons. (able to carry R-73's now)

- Triangle on front canopy

- Long blade antenna on the underside

 

There is also a tiny GPS antenna on the back. Cockpit has been updated along with the radar. To help visualise, look for the three main things i listed above. This is "vanilla" MiG-31:

 

http://russianplanes.net/id119304

 

This is BM:

 

http://russianplanes.net/id118864

 

HTH.

[RIPTIDE]

He's got 5 pages of pictures of far more than 12 airframes.

 

Lots of bias here wishing there was less. ;)

[NOLA]

He's got 5 pages of pictures of far more than 12 airframes.

 

Lots of bias here wishing there was less. ;)

 

Well, i was basing my statement/claim on facts (again, i have picture of every "frame" i have on the list) i have collected for several years, while he was... eh... just saying there were under 12, no facts what so ever supporting the claim.

 

Big difference there, but feel free to keep your bias. ;)

[RIPTIDE]

Well, i was basing my statement/claim on facts (again, i have picture of every "frame" i have on the list) i have collected for several years, while he was... eh... just saying there were under 12, no facts what so ever supporting the claim.

 

Big difference there, but feel free to keep your bias. ;)

I have looked at your list and accepted that there are far more than 12. I wasn't talking about your bias or my bias.

 

You would do well to increase your level of Reading Comprehension.

[NOLA]

You would do well to increase your level of Reading Comprehension.

 

I understood what you meant. The comments were not connected.

[FeoFUN]

Red:

 

01

03

09

22

23

32

34

37

 

Blue:

 

10

16

60

91

92

93

94

95

592

 

Total: 17

17 = 40 now, LOL. :lol:

 

17 is much closer to 12 than to 40 - you know. :)

[NOLA]

 

So, anyone still feel calling him a "fool" was over the top? I have a different expression cooking, inspired by The Wire, lets just say it ends with "bird".

Edited September 16, 2013 by NOLA

[FeoFUN]

The only fool here is you, kid - try to learn some manners. You did the statement about 40+ 31BM and failed to prove it with something more credible than stupid childish insults.

[Pilotasso]

guys... :)

[NOLA]

guys... :)

 

Answered your question in case you missed in between the fire fight. ;)

[aaron886]

These were all "horrible posts" until the interesting information about Russia's MiG-31s. Thanks, NOLA. Some of us are reading and comprehending. :D

[*Rage*]

The only fool here is you, kid - try to learn some manners. You did the statement about 40+ 31BM and failed to prove it with something more credible than stupid childish insults.

 

So check the link. Why does having more 31BM airframes cause you back passage pains?

[FeoFUN]

So check the link. Why does having more 31BM airframes cause you back passage pains?

There're NO 40+ BM on his link. Next time, check the facts before start playing advocate.

Edited September 17, 2013 by FeoFUN

[aaron886]

There're NO 40+ BM on his link. Next time, check the facts before start playing advocate.

 

Come now, read again. He posted that link to prove you were making up numbers... that there are, in fact, more than the 12 you claimed. He's discrediting you, and doing so effectively. Don't make it easier by pushing this. :doh:

[FeoFUN]

Come now, read again. He posted that link to prove you were making up numbers... that there are, in fact, more than the 12 you claimed. He's discrediting you, and doing so effectively. Don't make it easier by pushing this. :doh:

May be it's more than a dozen, but not so much. Ok, i even agree there are two dozens - now the Europe Big six AFs are full of fear and panic, yeah.

[countto10]

In WW3 there are no airbases after 48 hours.

 

Game over for every advanced platform that requires one. :)

So Harriers will dominate.

[Teknetinium]

I find it silly when some compere numbers, it like who is pissing longer, again its silly to compare 7US carriers against 1 Russian kuznecov. The main thing is that Russians have the technology to develop products that compete with US and EU and have been doing it for more than 40 years.

 

Having the world's first space station "MIR" shows what they are capable of.I guise space-technology is as high-tech it can get.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Teknetinium

[*Rage*]

There're NO 40+ BM on his link. Next time, check the facts before start playing advocate.

 

What evidence have you provided? None.

 

Please come in, Dr Procto will see you now..

[NOLA]

I suggest we stop the discussion about the MiG-31BM numbers. It is clear that he knew he was right based on nothing and thought he had nothing to prove. I still stand by my fool statement, and i think he is the one who should learn manners.

 

When evidence came in (several times) he ignored it, stood on his own. Ironic he says "Next time, check the facts before start playing advocate.". IMHO better version would be:

 

"Next time, i need to check the facts before opening my mouth." :)

 

I will not comment this more in this thread.

 

And thanks aaron886, glad to help. :) Foxhound has been one of my favorite planes for a long time. Wildly off topic now, but as shameless plug, there is 1/48 kit coming out for those that might be model builders:

 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.711803982169995.1073741829.436005436416519&type=1

 

I have seen more up to date CAD's and i can say it is very promising. :) Yes, BM can be built out of the box. :D

 

So Harriers will dominate.

 

In case of WW3, there will be nothing left to dominate for anyone other than cockroaches.

[FeoFUN]

What evidence have you provided? None.

 

Please come in, Dr Procto will see you now..

Kid, i think you should learn some fundamental logical imperatives.