Vivoune Posted October 3, 2013 Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Hi guys, So I tried the past few days the nice Huey module and I love it but my shoulder hate it with a passion for the simple reason that my TM HOTAS Warthog Joystick is just way way too hard for all the constant tiny heli corrections and after half an hour I just have to stop entirely. So I figured it was time to take care of my Joystick as I always found it a bit too hard and not that smooth. I ordered some Molykote EM-30L grease and plan to replace the grease to treat the smooth problem.About the hardness, I tried to remove the big spring entirely and place all four little springs on top of the inside base but I'm not really liking it, sure it's very loose now, but it's way too loose and the joystick doesn't even goes back to the middle on its own, not to mention it prefers to avoid and go around the center position whenever I go straight from one side to the other which is because it's not used as originally designed I guess. So I thought I'd see if having another spring in there could be an option and I was surprised when Thrustmaster very kindly sent me the (one) spring specification sheet that they could find. Very helpful considering how helpless I was after I contacted a spring specialised company at how much data they need to do a proper custom spring. So anyway I didn't go through with it just yet but I though I'd share the specs with you guys and see if some of you tried custom springs. For the record, the price I could get was about 50 euros per spring. I asked for two versions, the original Spring, to have the referal specs and a 3mm wire diameter version for a lighter version (original being 4mm) and an adapted number of spired for a reduced force by grossly 2/3. Given the specs sent by thrustmaster the numbers looks good. Note that it's a translated version so the technical terminology might not be perfect. most of the first 2 letters/digits are just the international abbreviations I beleive. I don't know if I'll go through with it yet though I gotta say having the whole TM Warthog experience the way it's supposed to but with the possibility of a 2/3 powered down big spring. That's quite tempting, even if the one spring is 50 euros. Edited October 3, 2013 by Vivoune [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Menessis Posted October 3, 2013 Posted October 3, 2013 Since springs are often made of "piano wire" I bet you could go to a hobby store and find a piece. It's used for RC air plane landing gear. Find some thing a little smaller then the diameter you need and try to bend your own. Just a thought. Menessis
Vivoune Posted October 3, 2013 Author Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the tip! I'm not sure where I'd even start to bend and shape a 3 or 4mm large wire/rod into a proper spring but yup it's indeed worth a shot to try and find not as precise but easier/cheaper spring variants that could fit the unit. I'll probably keep an eye out for any potential way to achieve that before going forward with these 'pro' versions. I still think sharing the technical sheets of the spring was worth sharing given the stiffness of the warthog is often pointed as a downside and some people might be looking into addressing that. Edited October 3, 2013 by Vivoune [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Hansolo Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 Hi, Do you have an extention on the stick? Otherwise that would also lessen the force needed to move the joystick and can be done relativelt cheap :thumbup: Mine is home made using a Gardena hose connector and a piece of drain pipe. Cheers Hans 132nd Virtual Wing homepage & 132nd Virtual Wing YouTube channel My DCS-BIOS sketches & Cockpit Album
Vivoune Posted October 4, 2013 Author Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) Hey HMA, nop no extension, I considered it and looked at the custom-made extensions thread but I don't have the necessary room for it. I would do that if I had a dedicated space for simming but currently that's not the case so my joystick has to stay at my forearm level. Thanks though that's one legit looking extension you got there :) I also considered buying just a HOTAS Cougar Joystick (or any other joystick that is loose enough for helicopter flying) as I can probably get my hands on one for 30-40eur and use it with the Warthog Throttles whenever I fly Helis but switching joystick bases all the time is kind of an unnecessary hassle if I can just get the right Warthog spring tension. Edited October 4, 2013 by Vivoune [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GregP Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 I would definitely be interested in some kind of spring mod, as I've gone through the exact same steps you have in order to lessen the stock spring force. I bought a box of springs of different strengths a few months ago and have been periodically trying them out in my Warthog. It seems that with simple springs alone, perhaps it's impossible to simultaneously have tolerable forces while retaining a solid centering capability. The springs I'm using right now are great in terms of strength, but not so great on centering. As such I've got much more 'center slop' than I would like to have, but I just don't know what else to do. I wish somebody like IJ would come up with an NXT Warthog kit or something similar ... I spent several hundred in mods on my Cougar years ago and it was worth every penny.
Lausbub78 Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 Hm,what about using cable ties to "shorten" the stock spring? I did it the hard way and just shortened the original Spring. I don't advice it though,I've been very lucky to just get it right for me.^^ The Stick returns to center even with an 10cm extension,but just a little shorter and it wouldn't. I'd try cable ties first before ordering a custom made spring.
Vivoune Posted October 4, 2013 Author Posted October 4, 2013 Tying up the first few spires at the bottom of the original main spring so the spring is a bit shorter is what you are suggesting? Just to make sure I understand. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Vivoune Posted October 5, 2013 Author Posted October 5, 2013 Thanks for the tip, I will try that, although I would have thought that any spring modification should have the same length of the original, only different resistance. It's worth a try [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GregP Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 Last night I again tried varying the small springs I use and I was able to find a combination that I'm happy with for the time being. If the main spring shortening method doesn't work for people, I'd recommend buying a box of various small springs and just trying them out one by one to see what works best for you.
Vivoune Posted October 5, 2013 Author Posted October 5, 2013 So I tried 2 things, first I tried doing a spring out of a 2mm inox rod, as expected that is a very hard thing to do without the proper tools and although I could do one if I take the time that doesn't seem so worth the trouble, to a point where I'd rather order a pro-made one. Secondly I tried Lausbub78's tip and went to reduce the spring number of free spires by attaching some with kitchen rope. After a few tries and adjustments I think I found a decent spring length that makes the Joystick way way less stiff but still provide a good centering and resistance. I'm quite happy with it and it is possible by just sliding the rope to free or trap more or less spires, making for easy small tweaking to one's preference. So thanks for the tip mate! Here are a few pics for the sake of it, I'd say the stiffness is cut by about 2/3. I tried going lower but then the center has almost no resistance and it feels like the Joystick just broke. I'll keep that config for some time and see in the future if I still feel like ordering a proper custom spring. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Havner Posted October 9, 2013 Posted October 9, 2013 I tried to do an identical thing like on the picture above. Tie it up in the same spots. I think I managed to. Unfortunately the spring was no longer symetric. It was bended a little bit (which is expected) and it didn't center properly anymore. In theory it could have been solved with the calibration tool but I think I'll go with another set of 4 smaller springs. Just need to get some. For now trying the stock 4 ones put "above". And despite very glue'y lubricant I have (Molykote EM-30L en route) it gives me reasonable results. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Vivoune Posted October 11, 2013 Author Posted October 11, 2013 Indeed the spires have to be 'locked' carefully to have a leveled spring. I have tweaked the placements a bit after I took the photo to achieve just that so I think it's also a bit angled at the time of the pic. As long as your solution suits you it's fine, good luck with greasing your unit. It's quite easy but just take your time, in the end the greasing helps with the smoothness, as in, the texture of the joystick movement, which imo is nice and necessary but it's not an exceptional improvement, in terms of stiffness to my experience it didn't do anything at all. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
ctguy1955 Posted September 1, 2018 Posted September 1, 2018 Hm,what about using cable ties to "shorten" the stock spring? I did it the hard way and just shortened the original Spring. I don't advice it though,I've been very lucky to just get it right for me.^^ The Stick returns to center even with an 10cm extension,but just a little shorter and it wouldn't. I'd try cable ties first before ordering a custom made spring. I never did see an answer to this and I have LOTS of large and small and medium ( what else is there ?) as I was an electrician for 35 years. I went to lowes and replaced the bottom 4 springs with compression springs but others on a Frontier site for elite dangerous mentioned a set of springs that are not compression and I don't see how they can work.
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