DCS: Spitfire Mk LF IXc Discussion

[Friedrich-4B]

From R Wallace Clarke British Aircraft Armament Vol.2: Guns and Gunsights:

At first there was concern over the possibility of the sight falling into enemy hands, and there were restrictions on gyro-equipped aircraft flying over enemy-held territory, but as they became more numerous this rule was relaxed, and the Luftwaffe began to suffer from the attentions of an enemy who could suddenly fire with uncanny accuracy. Not that all fighter pilots accepted the gyro sight with enthusiam at first, for it required a fair degree of dexterity: select graticule brillance, set graticule presentation, set span level, then once the target is presented align the ring of diamonds to the enemy span. No such preparation was needed on the Mk II, but as pilots gained experience the early scepticism vanished, and results bore witness to the gyro's effectiveness. The US Navy and Army Air Force formally accepted the sight, and production commenced in America where it was designated the Mk 18 (Navy) and K-14 (USAAF). In Canada, Semco Instruments produced a naval sight more robust than aircraft versions and with two dimming screens to counter glare off the sea. Otherwise the 'works' were identical to the Ferranti model.

Details of Mk II GGS Gyro Sight Production

 

GGS specification received from Air Ministry to Ferranti Ltd, Edinburgh, February 1943.

Site for new factory purchased December 1942.

Building commenced February 1943.

Factory opened June 1943

First production sight 30 November 1943

Quantity production commenced February 1944

Output in March 1945: 1,000

 

From a labour force of 100 in July 1943, Ferranti employed 950 at peak production in October 1944.

 

Number produced.

 

1944

 

February: 8

March: 110

April: 200

May: 250

June: 370

July: 380

August: 420

September: 540

October: 700

November: 720

December: 600

 

1945

 

February: 400

March: 1,000

April: 1,100

 

The pilot using the GGS used the throttle lever to control the range graticles

 

 

 

 

[Kurfürst]

Not forgetting that by mid-1944 a high proportion of 2 TAF Spitfires were fitted with the Mk II Gyro gunsight

 

Can you specifiy how many would that what you seem believe to be a "high proportion" exactly was? One Squadron, perhaps two flying operational trials, or maybe an odd example here and there? If it was as you claim, I am sure there would be tons of photographic and textual evidence of such a common sight (getit), apart from a picture of a trial aircraft and a picture of post-war Czech Spitfire in Kbely museum. The machine originally belonged to No. 310 Squadron, which :

 

"In 1944, the squadron re-equipped with the Supermarine Spitfire IX and became a fighter-bomber unit with 134 Wing, flying ground attack duties during the Normandy landings. The squadron then spent the rest of the war flying armed reconnaissance missions along the Dutch and Belgian coasts. The final number was 52.5 claims with four V-1s shot down."

 

Otherwise its very interesting and IMHO it would be very interesting to see such a sight in a Spitfire, to boost its fighting potential. Its operation seems to be very similar the German Einheitszielvorrichtung EZ 42 sight that is already modeled.

 

For those interested in this interesting gimmick, more on the GGS sight from the original Axis History topic from where our dear NZTyphoon has copy pasted the pictures and the transcribed text, kindly provided by Mr. Robert Hurst had originally transcribed the text and pictures. http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=114&t=17850&sid=bafe3b73e3540eca18d30d7cb698ae39

[MiloMorai]

Almost 6800 Mk IIs produced compared the the penny packet number of EZ42s that only were in use very late in the war.

[Friedrich-4B]

Can you specifiy how many would that what you seem believe to be a "high proportion" exactly was? One Squadron, perhaps two flying operational trials, or maybe an odd example here and there?

 

Hardly one or two squadrons: as production built up the majority of the sights were allocated to 2 TAF Spitfire units, along with Mustang unitsThe Wings & Squadrons trained at armament camps while Wing Commanders and Squadron leaders went to the Fighter Leader's Schools. (Shores and Thomas 2 TAF vol 1)

 

If it was as you claim, I am sure there would be tons of photographic and textual evidence of such a common sight (getit), apart from a picture of a trial aircraft and a picture of post-war Czech Spitfire in Kbely museum.

 

If by trials aircraft I presume you mean the operational Spitfire IX of 411(Canadian) Sqn, of 126 Wing which is in the process of receiving its D-Day stripes? 126 Wing was one of the first to receive GGS. There are plenty of photos of GGS equipped Spitfires, but, like most such details, they are often in the background of the photo, unless pointed out as a feature.

 

Otherwise its very interesting and IMHO it would be very interesting to see such a sight in a Spitfire, to boost its fighting potential. Its operation seems to be very similar the German Einheitszielvorrichtung EZ 42 sight that is already modeled.

 

It would indeed be interesting to have the option of the GGS Mk II; by comparison the Germans struggled with development of the EZ 42 and AFAIK few of them were used operationally, while those that were used on trials weren't particularly liked. If that can be modeled then there's no reason the GGS Mk II and American K-14 (derivative of the GGS Mk II) cannot be modeled.

 

For those interested in this interesting gimmick, more on the GGS sight from the original Axis History topic from where our dear NZTyphoon has copy pasted the pictures and the transcribed text, kindly provided by Mr. Robert Hurst had originally transcribed the text and pictures. http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=114&t=17850&sid=bafe3b73e3540eca18d30d7cb698ae39

 

It is indeed a most interesting and informative discussion by Mr Hurst, for which the link was included but went awol :joystick: Also from the thread:

 

Farnborough devised a solution which was one of the simplest yet most effective inventions of the war: a mirror was fixed to the end of the gyro and made to reflect an illuminated graticule onto the reflector plate. This graticule moved to the correct position allowing for deflection, and also incorporated a ranging facility. The graticule consisted of a ring of six small diamonds, the diameter of which could be set to correspond with the target span. The type of enemy aircraft was set on a dial, enabling the sight to calculate the range. The reflector screen was a large glass plate 120 mm (4.7 in) x 64 mm (2.5 in). Looking into the screen, the operator saw two illuminated graticules. The one on the left was a fixed ring graticule which could be used if the gyro system failed, its main use being to harmonise the guns with the sights. In the right half of the screen was the gyro-controlled ring of six diamonds. The diameter of the ring was adjusted by foot pedals in the turret version of the sight, and by a twist grip on the pilot's throttle lever on the fighter type. Both graticules could be dimmed for night use, or used singly by switching either on or off. The height and speed setting unit of the Mk I was found to be ideal, and could not be improved. The first Mk II sights made at Farnborough were tested by the Armament Research Unit in July 1943, and it was clear that the problems had been solved.

 

The sights seemed to possess almost magical qualities. As an ex-Battle of Britain pilot stated: ' I look back on previous combats where the enemy escaped more or less intact, and realised that I could most certainly and easily have destroyed it if I had been using a good gunsight'. A demonstration was also staged for two pilots of the USAAF. One reported:

 

I believe this sight would improve gunnery at least 100 per cent. Shooting is at the moment for most pilots purely guesswork. A pilot cannot guess with this sight, due to this I am sure that at least the lower bracket of pilots (75 per cent) will improve their shooting to the level of the best gunnery shots now, and the best ones can do even better. It is easy to handle, and there is no situaiton it cannot handle as well as the GM2, and in most cases (90 per cent) it will do better.

 

The second pilot reported

 

Speaking from the point of view of the day fighter, I would say that the Mk IID gyro gunsight is definitely the answer to our problem with deflection shooting. We are proving daily that the average pilot cannot do deflection shooting, even with small angles, accurately with a fixed sight. I think that the sight should be put into produciton immediately and fighter squadrons equipped with them as soon as possible.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Friedrich-4/B

[Friedrich-4B]

Almost 6800 Mk IIs produced compared the the penny packet number of EZ42s that only were in use very late in the war.

 

JV 44 tested some EZ42s, but they proved unreliable and ineffective, and the pilots soon abandoned it (Robert Forsythe JV 44 The Galland Circus, pages 180-182)

Edited March 4, 2014 by Friedrich-4/B

[MiloMorai]

27 D-9 were built with this gunsight, 20 in February, and 7 in March 1945, according to JaPo's "Focke-Wulf fw 190 D camouflage and markings".

[Kurfürst]

Hardly one or two squadrons: as production built up the majority of the sights were allocated to 2 TAF Spitfire units, along with Mustang unitsThe Wings & Squadrons trained at armament camps while Wing Commanders and Squadron leaders went to the Fighter Leader's Schools. (Shores and Thomas 2 TAF vol 1)

 

I suppose no information on the number fitted then, so we can't tell if it was typical for late 1944 Spitfire IXs or not.

 

Can you provide an exact reference , preferably a scan for all to see?

 

If by trials aircraft I presume you mean the operational Spitfire IX of 411(Canadian) Sqn, of 126 Wing which is in the process of receiving its D-Day stripes? 126 Wing was one of the first to receive GGS. There are plenty of photos of GGS equipped Spitfires, but, like most such details, they are often in the background of the photo, unless pointed out as a feature.

 

So, its two Mark Nine Squadrons (310 and 411) out of the ca 30 of the 2nd TAF which may have had two aircraft fitted with gyro sight. Both of which appear to have been primarily used for ground attacks roles, as were most of the near-obsolescent Mark IXs by 1944.

 

Of 411 Squadron, the following is to be noted:

 

"Converting to the Spitfire IX in October 1943 it then became a fighter-bomber squadron. Within two weeks of the D-Day it was operating from France in the close-support role and it also operated armed reconnaissance flights. Following the advancing troops the squadron was soon based in Germany until it was disbanded at Utersen on 21 March 1946".

 

I wonder how many times it even managed to engage 109s and 190s. Did they claim any enemy fighter?

 

It would indeed be interesting to have the option of the GGS Mk II; by comparison the Germans struggled with development of the EZ 42 and AFAIK few of them were used operationally, while those that were used on trials weren't particularly liked. If that can be modeled then there's no reason the GGS Mk II and American K-14 (derivative of the GGS Mk II) cannot be modeled.

 

There was hardly much "struggle" I would say that is pretty much just the usual wishful thinking. Zeiss's own development wasn't particularly good, so the Askania gyro sight model was chosen and entered into mass production in mid-1944. Te Askania firm was famed for its measurement and recording units, so I guess it had the required experience for designing a superior gyro sight. There was a lack of interest on behalf of the RLM in more complex and expensive sights until 1944, when it entered mass production and was fitted to about 200 fighter aircraft.

 

The development of the EZ 40 gyro sight began in 1935 at the Carl Zeiss and Askania companies, but was of low priority. Not until the beginning of 1942, when a US P-47 Thunderbolt fighter equipped with a gyro-stabilised sight was captured, did the RLM speed up research. In the summer of 1941, the EZ 40, for which both the Carl Zeiss and Askania companies were submitting their developments, was rejected. Tested in a Bf 109 F, Askania's EZ 40 produced 50 to 100% higher hit probability compared to the then standard sight, the REVI C12c. In the summer of 1943 an example of the EZ 41 developed by the Zeiss company was tested, but was refused because of too many faults.

 

In the summer 1942, the Askania company began work on the EZ 42, which gunsight could be adjusted for the target's wingspan (in order to estimate distance to the target). Three examples of the first series of 33 pieces were delivered in July 1944. These were followed by further 770 units, the last being delivered by the beginning of March 1945. Each unit took 130 labour hours to produce. The EZ 42 was made up by two major parts, and lead computation was provided by two gyroscopes. The system, weighing 13.6 kg (30 lb) complete, of which the reflector sight was 3.2 kg, was ordered into mass production at the Steinheil company in Munich. Approximately 200 of the sights were installed into Fw 190 and Me 262 fighters. The pilots reported that attacks from 20 degrees deflection were possible, and that although the maximum range of the EZ 42 was stated as approximately 1,000 meters, several enemy aircraft were shot down from a combat distance of 1,500 meters.

 

The EZ 42 was compared with the Allied G.G.S. captured from in a P-47 Thunderbolt in September 1944 in Germany. Both sights were tested in the same Fw 190, and by the same pilot. The conclusion was critical of the moving graticule of the G.G.S., which could be obscured by the target. Compared to the EZ 42, the Allied sight's prediction angle was found on average to be 20% less accurate, and vary by 1% per degree. Tracking accuracy with the G.G.S. measured as the mean error of the best 50% of pictures was 20% worse than with the EZ 42.

 

 

I do hope though that the GGS can be modeled, along with the marked inferiority in accuracy compared to the more advanced EZ 42. Provided of course sufficient evidence can be found that it has been used to any significant extent by Spitfire IX units.

[Friedrich-4B]

JV 44 tested some EZ42s, but they proved unreliable and ineffective, and the pilots locked it and used it a conventional sight.(Robert Forsyth JV 44 The Galland Circus, pages 180-182)

 

 

Also from Smith & Creek ME 262 Volume 2: the only Me 262 unit to use the EZ42 was JV 44 and 1 pilot from JG 7; the EZ42 "proved unpopular and ineffective"

 

 

So it would be interesting to know where the more sensational claims about the EZ42 came from, because it certainly didn't work in the 262.

[MiloMorai]

I do hope though that the GGS can be modeled, along with the marked inferiority in accuracy compared to the more advanced EZ 42. Provided of course sufficient evidence can be found that it has been used to any significant extent by Spitfire IX units.

 

Since significant numbers of EZ42s were not fitted to Nazi German airplanes it should not have been modeled.

 

On can be sure that most of the ~6800 Mk IIs manufactured were left sitting in their shipping boxes. What ever you say Kurfurst.

[Kurfürst]

So any chance of evidence of the use of the GGS Mark II apart from a single Spitfire IX aircraft in Nos. 301 and 411 Sqns...?

 

The Uffz. Schallmoser gunsight malfunction is an interesting diversion, but I am afraid the conclusions drawn from it is very outdated and is contrasted by detailed and reliable German sources. Also, from Erich it appears that the EZ 40/42 was first issued in small numbers to Fw 190A-8 and A-8/R2 pilots of 5.Sturm/JG 300 who noticed a remarkable difference in sighting with high % of concentration of hits in a centerized area - killing area compared to using the older sight.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Kurfürst

[Kurfürst]

Some Fw 190s with EZ 42, Me 262 with EZ 42 (and I believe its no less than Karl Baur at the stick!) and a very interesting data card on the EZ 42 control box.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Kurfürst

[Fox One]

About Fw 190 D-9 with EZ 42:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1818980&postcount=422

[Kurfürst]

Volltreffer, Fox One.

[MiloMorai]

So Kurfy tells us where did those 6800 produced Mk IIs go.

[Friedrich-4B]

So Kurfy tells us where did those 6800 produced Mk IIs go.

 

Some of them went to 485(NZ) Squadron in March 1944:

 

 

Others were used by 308(Polish) Sqn:

 

317(Polish) Squadron:

 

Some Fw 190s with EZ 42, Me 262 with EZ 42 (and I believe its no less than Karl Baur at the stick!) and a very interesting data card on the EZ 42 control box.

 

Karl Baur at the stick of a non-operational Me 262 test bed...

 

[/url]

Edited March 5, 2014 by Friedrich-4/B

[Kurfürst]

Hi Jeff, I am glad to see you made progress towards a constructive approach! You see, I would very much like to see all common equipment used to be modeled, and the best way you can help the developers in this matter is finding as much information you can.

 

Speaking of which, this is what I have found on No. 485 combat 'experience':

 

RAF Hornchurch was the destination in February 1944, when 485 Sqn, again equipped with new Spitfire IXs (NOTE - prior to that, the 485 was still using obsolete Mark Vs in early 1944...!), became part of 135 Wing with 122 Sqn and 222 Sqn. Preparations for D-Day were under way and 485 Sqn undertook bombing and air-gunnery practice with a new Mk IIC gyroscopic gunsight. There was little chance to try out the new gunsight in action before D-Day however, as the squadron was engaged in bomber escort and saw few enemy aircraft.

 

Opportunities for air to air combat came on D-Day and on the week following, when 485 Sqn. claimed a total of nine enemy aircraft with no losses; these were to be the last enemy aircraft shot down in combat.

 

So, aside the earlier Mark Niner Squadron mentioned, which had some of its planes equipped with GGS and most of late 1944 on uneventful patrols over the Dutch coastline, we have now another Squadron which used the GGS for firing practice in the spring of 1944 and possibly shot down a couple of enemy planes in June 1944, and had no air-to-air success at all afterwards.

 

Still, its better than nothing, at last we now have a single GGS MK IX Squadron that used the GGS in anger. I am sure you can still find us some more, remember, to 2nd TAF on the continent had over 30 Mark IX/XVI Spitfire Squadrons.

[Merlin-27]

This is all very interesting stuff! Thanks for all the hard work, guys. Every aircraft needs this kind of devotion.

[MiloMorai]

You see, I would very much like to see all common equipment used to be modeled, and the best way you can help the developers in this matter is finding as much information you can.

 

The EZ42 was not common tho but there was 6800 Mk IIs built so it was in common use.

 

Karl Baur: shooting with the EZ42 will demand much practice and the use of new tactics.

 

JV7 and JV44 tested the EZ42 and found that it is difficult to calibrate and usually locked in position. (The gyro were locked and the sight operated as a non gyro sight)

 

The 1.98ata/C3 K-4 was not common either.

[bongodriver]

is it me or does that Me 262 pilot look like Ade Edmondson?

 

 

[Friedrich-4B]

The gunsight was also used by 126 Canadian Wing:

 

 

 

Note that Audet later shot down an Me 262: Spitfire IXs of 126 Wing shot down 4 Me 262s and 4 Ar 234s.

[Kurfürst]

You already mentioned the Canadian 411 Squadron, Jeff.

[MiloMorai]

Fredrich, you do know that Kurfurst is trolling. Anyone with just a little bit of intelligence would know that that many gun sights would be put to use and not stuck in some backwater stores.

 

It is another of his typical ploys to have British documentation to the nth degree but any little tidbit is good enough for widespread nazi German use,

[Friedrich-4B]

It's a shame that Kurfurst has set out to be so disparaging about 2 TAF's Spitfire IX operations; nor has he cited any sources for some of his sweeping generalisations, while expecting everyone else to provide sources to justify their comments; in this instance the following points regarding 485 Sqn (no source given by Kurfurst) are worth commenting on:

 

Speaking of which, this is what I have found on No. 485 combat 'experience':

 

RAF Hornchurch was the destination in February 1944, when 485 Sqn, again equipped with new Spitfire IXs (NOTE - prior to that, the 485 was still using obsolete Mark Vs in early 1944...!).

 

What Kurfurst has failed to mention is that 485 Sqn had been equipped with Spitfire IXs for most of 1943, before being sent to Drem, Scotland to be rested and prepare for 2 TAF, during which time they used Spitfire VBs. It would be interesting to know why Kurfurst thinks that Spitfire Vs should not have been used by a squadron that was not engaged on frontline duties.

 

became part of 135 Wing with 122 Sqn and 222 Sqn. Preparations for D-Day were under way and 485 Sqn undertook bombing and air-gunnery practice with a new Mk IIC gyroscopic gunsight. There was little chance to try out the new gunsight in action before D-Day however, as the squadron was engaged in bomber escort and saw few enemy aircraft.

 

Opportunities for air to air combat came on D-Day and on the week following, when 485 Sqn. claimed a total of nine enemy aircraft with no losses; these were to be the last enemy aircraft shot down in combat.

 

While Kurfurst has highlighted the sections from this (unsourced) comment that he likes, it is just as interesting to highlight other aspects of 485 Sqn's operations:

 

Preparations for D-Day were under way and 485 Sqn undertook bombing and air-gunnery practice with a new Mk IIC gyroscopic gunsight. There was little chance to try out the new gunsight in action before D-Day however, as the squadron was engaged in bomber escort and saw few enemy aircraft.

 

Opportunities for air to air combat came on D-Day and on the week following, when 485 Sqn. claimed a total of nine enemy aircraft with no losses; these were to be the last enemy aircraft shot down in combat.

 

If Kurfurst read more widely he would know that the Luftwaffe was so stretched on the Normandy front there was little opportunity for combat for several Spitfire IX units (from Bf 109F/G/K Aces of the Western Front):

 

 

While 485 Sqn didn't shoot down many Luftwaffe aircraft after about June 17 it was because there simply weren't that many to go around amongst 2 TAF, plus the USAAF 9th Air Force and the USAAF 8th A/F. Disparaging 485 Squadron and questioning the unit's experience because the squadron did not shoot down non-existent opposition is nonsensical and useless. This isn't to disparage the Luftwaffe pilots who did their best in extremely difficult circumstances and put up a gallant fight.

 

Plus the priority was on ground attack - one reason 2 TAF was called 2 Tactical Air Force was because its primary purpose was to support the ground troops, in which role the Spitfire IXs were very effective:

 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2014 by Friedrich-4/B

[MiloMorai]

here you go Kurfy, tell us which squadrons didn't use the Mk II gyro gun sight.

 

2 TAF ORDER OF BATTLE 6th JUNE 1944

 

No2 Group

137 Wing

88 Squadron Boston IIIA

342 (French) Squadron Boston IIIA

226 Squadron Mitchell II

 

138 Wing

107 Squadron Mosquito VI

305 (Polish) Squadron Mosquito VI

613 Squadron Mosquito VI

 

139 Wing

98 Squadron Mitchell II

180 Squadron Mitchell II

320 (Dutch) Squadron Mitchell II

 

140 Wing

21 Squadron Mosquito VI

464 (RAAF) Squadron Mosquito VI

487 (RNZAF) Squadron Mosquito VI

 

 

No 83 Group

39 (RCAF) Reconnaissance Wing

400 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX SP

168 Squadron Mustang I

414 (RCAF) Squadron Mustang I RU

430 (RCAF) Squadron Mustang I G9

 

15 Sector

122 Wing

19 Squadron Mustang III QV

65 Squadron Mustang III YT

122 Squadron Mustang III MT

 

125 Wing

132 Squadron Spitfire IX FF

453 (RAAF) Squadron Spitfire IX FU

602 Squadron Spitfire IX LO

 

129 Wing

184 Squadron Typhoon IB BR

 

 

17 Sector

126 Wing

401 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX YO

411 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX DB

412 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX VZ

 

127 Wing

403 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX KH

416 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX DN

421 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX AU

 

144 Wing

441 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX 9G

442 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX Y2

443 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX Z1

 

 

22 Sector

121 Wing

174 Squadron Typhoon IB XP

175 Squadron Typhoon IB HH

245 Squadron Typhoon IB MR

 

124 Wing

181 Squadron Typhoon IB EL

182 Squadron Typhoon IB XM

247 Squadron Typhoon IB ZY

 

143 Wing

438 (RCAF) Squadron Typhoon IB F3

439 (RCAF) Squadron Typhoon IB 5V

440 (RCAF) Squadron Typhoon IB I8

 

83 Group Reserve with ADGB

64 Squadron Spitfire V SH

234 Squadron Spitfire V AZ

303 (Polish) Squadron Spitfire V RF

345 (French) Squadron Spitfire Vb 2Y

350 (Belgian) Squadron Spitfire Vb MN

402 (Canadian) Squadron Spitfire V AE

501 Squadron Spitfire V SD

611 Squadron Spitfire V FY

 

 

No 84 Group

35 Reconnaissance Wing

2 Squadron Mustang IA OI

268 Squadron Mustang IA

4 Squadron Spitfire XI TV

 

18 Sector

131 Wing

302 (Polish) Squadron Spitfire IX WX

308 (Polish) Squadron Spitfire IX ZF

317 (Polish) Squadron Spitfire IX JH

 

132 Wing

66 Squadron Spitfire IX LZ

331 (Norwegian) Squadron Spitfire IX FN

332 (Norwegian) Squadron Spitfire IX AH

 

134 Wing

310 (Czech) Squadron Spitfire IX NN

312 (Czech) Squadron Spitfire IX DU

313 (Czech) Squadron Spitfire IX

 

19 Sector

135 Wing

222 Squadron Spitfire IX ZD

349 (Belgian) Squadron Spitfire IX GE

485 (RNZAF) Squadron Spitfire IX OU

 

133 Wing

129 Squadron Mustang III DV

306 (Polish) Squadron Mustang III UZ

315 (Polish) Squadron Mustang III PK

 

145 Wing

329 (French) Squadron Spitfire IX

340 (French) Squadron Spitfire IX GW

341 (French) Squadron Spitfire IX NL

 

20 Sector

123 Wing

198 Squadron Typhoon IB TP

609 Squadron Typhoon IB PR

 

146 Wing

193 Squadron Typhoon IB DD

197 Squadron Typhoon IB OV

257 Squadron Typhoon IB FM

266 Squadron Typhoon IB ZH

 

136 Wing

164 Squadron Typhoon IB FJ

183 Squadron Typhoon IB HF

 

No 84 Group Reserve with ADGB

149 Wing

33 Squadron Spitfire IX 5R

74 Squadron Spitfire IX 4D

 

233 Wing

80 Squadron Spitfire IX WZ

229 Squadron Spitfire IX 9R

274 Squadron Spitfire IX JJ

 

 

No 85 Group

141 Wing

91 Squadron Spitfire XIV DL

124 Squadron Spitfire VII ON

322 (Dutch) Squadron Spitfire XIV 3W

 

142 Wing

264 Squadron Mosquito XIII PS

604 Squadron Mosquito XIII NG

 

147 Wing

29 Squadron Mosquito XIII RO

 

148 Wing

409 (RCAF) Squadron Mosquito XIII KP

 

149 Wing

410 (RCAF) Squadron Mosquito XIII RA

488 (RNZAF) Squadron Mosquito XIII ME

 

150 Wing

56 Squadron Spitfire IX US

3 Squadron Tempest V JF

486 (RNZAF) Squadron Tempest V SA

 

34 Reconnaissance Wing

16 Squadron Spitfire XI

140 Squadron Mosquito IX/XVI

69 Squadron Wellington XIII

 

85 Group Reserve with ADGB

406 Squadron Beaufighter HV

418 (Canadian) Squadron Mosquito III TH

 

more info http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/23810-2nd-tactical-air-force/

[Friedrich-4B]

Pre-D-Day confirmation that the Spitfire IX squadrons of 126, 127 & 132 Airfields were completely equipped with GGS plus 20 Spitfires of 135 Airfield:

126 Wing

401 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX YO

411 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX DB

412 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX VZ

 

127 Wing

403 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX KH

416 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX DN

421 (RCAF) Squadron Spitfire IX AU

 

132 Wing

66 Squadron Spitfire IX LZ

331 (Norwegian) Squadron Spitfire IX FN

332 (Norwegian) Squadron Spitfire IX AH

 

135 Wing

222 Squadron Spitfire IX ZD

349 (Belgian) Squadron Spitfire IX GE

485 (RNZAF) Squadron Spitfire IX OU

 

In 2 TAF Airfields were so named because each three Squadron unit was considered to be a "mobile airfield" - the designation was changed to Wings effective 12 May 1944:

 

 

from

 

 

Also, 310(Czechoslovak) Squadron, an ex-2 TAF Spitfire squadron which Kurfurst sought to disparage...

 

... The squadron then spent the rest of the war flying armed reconnaissance missions along the Dutch and Belgian coasts...

 

According to Shores and Thomas, the 3 Czech squadrons of 134 Wing were transferred to ADGB on June 29 1944 because of an anticipated shortage of Czech pilots; they then spent the rest of the war flying bomber escort missions into the Netherlands and Germany, during which time the squadrons did not see a single German fighter - although flak and bad weather took a toll.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2014 by Friedrich-4/B
Adding info on 310 Sqn being transferred to ADGB