MiloMorai Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 It appears to designate where it was built. Not appears to designate where built but where it was built. P-51s used NA and NT. B-17s would have BO, DL and VE. Every manufacturer had a code which was included in the model designation.
Crumpp Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 In Oct '44, there was a total of 1922 P-47s and 1366 P-51s on hand in the ETO. Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250
Crumpp Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Milo says: Not appears to designate where built but where it was built. :huh: Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250
Kurfürst Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I suppose "on hand" would include the ones in storage/reserve..? http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse! -Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945.
ED Team NineLine Posted March 5, 2015 ED Team Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) I suppose "on hand" would include the ones in storage/reserve..? I would think so, not that it matters much, ask the planners of Operation Bodenplatte :) It does say "On hand in theaters..." so I assume they were with in close proximity to replenish any lost aircraft easily... As a side note when you guys are pulling all these numbers of aircraft here there and everywhere, the above Operation is a great example of how those numbers can be skewed by poor record keeping and such, just something to keep in mind when you are counting P-47s :) Edited March 5, 2015 by NineLine Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
MiloMorai Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 :huh: Maybe this will help with your Code Manufacturer Location AD Aero Design & Engineering Co. Bethany, Okla. AE Aeronca Aircraft Corp. Middletown, Ohio AG Air Glider Inc. Akron, Ohio AH American Helicopter Co., Inc. Manhattan Beach, Calif. AV Avro Canada Montreal, Canada BA Bell Aircraft Corp. Atlanta, Ga. BB Babcock Aircraft Deland, Fla. BC Bell Aerosystems Co. Buffalo, N.Y. BE Bell Aircraft Corp. Buffalo, N.Y. BF Bell Aircraft Corp. Fort Worth, Tex. BH Beech Aircraft Corp. Wichita, Kans. BL Bellanca Aircraft New Castle, Del. BN Boeing Airplane Co. Renton, Wash. BO Boeing Airplane Co. Seattle, Wash. BR Briegleb Sailplane Beverley Hills, Calif. BS Bowlus Sailplane San Francisco, Calif. BU Budd Manufacturing Philadelphia, Pa. BV Boeing Co., Vertol Division Morton, Pa. BW Boeing Airplane Co. Wichita, Kans. CA Chase Aircraft Co., Inc. West Trenton, N.J. CC Canadian Commercial Corp. Toronto, Canada CE Cessna Aircraft Co. Wichita, Kans. CF Convair (Consolidated-Vultee Aircraft Corp.) Fort Worth, Tex. CH Christopher Aircraft St. Louis, Mo. The list is to long for one post, so the rest can be found http://rwebs.net/avhistory/acdesig/usarmy.htm
MiloMorai Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I would think so, not that it matters much, ask the planners of Operation Bodenplatte :) It does say "On hand in theaters..." so I assume they were with in close proximity to replenish any lost aircraft easily... As a side note when you guys are pulling all these numbers of aircraft here there and everywhere, the above Operation is a great example of how those numbers can be skewed by poor record keeping and such, just something to keep in mind when you are counting P-47s :) Within a week all Allied losses during Bodenplatte had been replaced.
ED Team NineLine Posted March 5, 2015 ED Team Posted March 5, 2015 Within a week all Allied losses during Bodenplatte had been replaced. Yes, that was my point. 1 Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
MiloMorai Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 graphic deleted As 150PN fuel wasn't in the MTO, the numbers vs Germany are irrelevant.
Crumpp Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 As a side note when you guys are pulling all these numbers of aircraft here there and everywhere, the above Operation is a great example of how those numbers can be skewed by poor record keeping and such, just something to keep in mind when you are counting P-47s Absolutely! Look what happened in the Battle of Britain. According to the RAF wastage reports, the unit status was due at 6pm every evening. That unit status was due at CRO/PRU by 11pm every night. By 6am the next morning, the CRO/PRU made delivery of replacement aircraft and took the damaged ones in for repair. That is why the RAF maintained an 85% operational strength throughout the battle. Luftwaffe intelligence battle tracked off the unit status given at 6pm. So every day, the RAF fighters were "destroyed" in great numbers. Nobody was tracking that every morning they were replaced. It effected the German pilots morale hearing how fast they were "destroying" the RAF from the High Command and meeting about the same number of RAF fighters in the air every day. That is why the Luftwaffe pilots began black humor jokes about "Here comes the last Spitfire!" I suppose "on hand" would include the ones in storage/reserve..? On hand means everything loaded into the Operational Side of the supply chain and available to be used. This number account for wastage. It includes all the airframes in for minor repairs that will not be listed as operational on the unit status reports but are available within a timeline the Operational side designated. It is generally 24 hours. In 1944 for example, the Luftwaffe ran at about a 200% wastage rate. That means to keep 160 fighters operational, they had to have 320 airframes. That accounts for destroyed, damaged, down for maintenance, etc.... Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250
Crumpp Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 As 150PN fuel wasn't in the MTO, the numbers vs Germany are irrelevant. Ahh, the 9th AF was based in Italy (MTO) but lead the tactical effort hitting the invasion beaches and transportation infrastructure in France. That is why the statistical report is vs Germany. ;) Airplane can cover some pretty good distances. It is really not a far flight at all from Italy to Germany. Got some good pictures crossing the Alps from the multiple times I have flown it if you would like for me to share!! Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250
MiloMorai Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Ahh, the 9th AF was based in Italy (MTO) but lead the tactical effort hitting the invasion beaches and transportation infrastructure in France. That is why the statistical report is vs Germany. ;) Airplane can cover some pretty good distances. It is really not a far flight at all from Italy to Germany. Yes they can cover some pretty good distances but not from the southern half of Italy to Normandy. The 9th AF was transferred to the ETO in Oct 16 1943. This was stated in a previous post in this thread. On D-Day ALL 9th AF bases were in the UK.
Crumpp Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 On D-Day ALL 9th AF bases were in the UK. So you think they the USAAF was confused and did not know who they were fighting or what was available for that fight? the statistical report is vs Germany. Germany vs USAAF fighters... Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250
Crumpp Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Yes they can cover some pretty good distances but not from the southern half of Italy to Normandy So you don't think any bases in Italy could effect the tactical situation on the invasion beaches by hitting transportation infrastructure in France and Germany? Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250
ED Team NineLine Posted March 5, 2015 ED Team Posted March 5, 2015 So you don't think any bases in Italy could effect the tactical situation on the invasion beaches by hitting transportation infrastructure in France and Germany? map Well that map is a little deceiving, it doesn't take into account what you might run into on those trips :) At least before the Allies had mostly secured the skies... and are those ferry flights are combat flights, I think that would make a big difference as well. A P-47 sent on a ground strike could burn a lot of fuel just trying to accomplish its task, I cant imagine wanting to send it close to its limits on fuel because of that. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
MiloMorai Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 9th AF HQ (Sunnyhill Park, Ascot) and all other command HQs under the 9th AF were in the UK. The UK is a looong way from Italy. Why can't you man up and admit when you are wrong Crumpp?
ED Team NineLine Posted March 5, 2015 ED Team Posted March 5, 2015 Why can't you man up Please, lets not take this discussion there... 1.2. - Members must treat other with respect and tolerance. That material is Offensive, insulting or constitutes an Attack Against Any Individual or Group Will be subject to administrative Actions. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
MiloMorai Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Well that map is a little deceiving, it doesn't take into account what you might run into on those trips :) At least before the Allies had mostly secured the skies... and are those ferry flights are combat flights, I think that would make a big difference as well. A P-47 sent on a ground strike could burn a lot of fuel just trying to accomplish its task, I cant imagine wanting to send it close to its limits on fuel because of that. As escort fighters the P-47 had a hard time getting much past the German frontier when even carrying drop tanks. Yet we are to believe P-47s carring bombs from south of Rome could reach northern France and Belgium. Yah right!! It is pretty hard to have standing patrols, which the 9th, and 2cd, did flying from Italy.
Crumpp Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Well that map is a little deceiving, it doesn't take into account what you might run into on those trips IIRC, they factor in 20 minutes of combat power usage. Otherwise there is no point in flying to a point and back if you cannot do something useful. Similar to range planning I do, you have to factor in having the ability to make a missed approach and fly to an alternate airport with enough fuel to make another full approach. Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250
Crumpp Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 No external Load - Empty Belly tanks vs Range Chart for Belly Tanks :music_whistling: Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250
Crumpp Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 "No reserve" does not mean "No fuel to complete the mission". Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250
saburo_cz Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 due to increased fuel capacity (since D-25 model), this chart will be more useful for DCS Thunderbolt (of course, if they still inteded to bring us D-30 model) than previous presented one F6F P-51D | P-47D | F4U-1D | Mosquito FB Mk VI | Spitfire | Fw 190D | Fw 190A | Bf 109K | WWII Assets Pack Normandy 2 | The Channel | Sinai | Syria | PG | NTTR | South Atlantic F-4E | F-14A/B | F/A-18 | F-86 | F-16C | A-10C | FC-3 | CA | SC |
Friedrich-4B Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) due to increased fuel capacity (since D-25 model), this chart will be more useful for DCS Thunderbolt (of course, if they still inteded to bring us D-30 model) than previous presented one I'll add these to help complete the picture (also pdf) Ahh, the 9th AF was based in Italy (MTO) but lead the tactical effort hitting the invasion beaches and transportation infrastructure in France. Completely wrong; the 9th AF was based in Britain well before D-Day: this is the disposition of its forces in Britain 1 June 1944: The 9th started moving to Northern France in July 1944 and, by October 30, the P-47s were based just to the south of the Ardennes (see pdf), well with range of the front lines and able to hit targets well beyond the front lines using 1 drop tank. Edited March 5, 2015 by Friedrich-4/B 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]************************************* Fortunately, Mk IX is slightly stable, anyway, the required stick travel is not high... but nothing extraordinary. Very pleasant to fly, very controllable, predictable and steady. We never refuse to correct something that was found outside ED if it is really proven...But we never will follow some "experts" who think that only they are the greatest aerodynamic guru with a secret knowledge. :smartass: WWII AIRCRAFT PERFORMANCE
Crumpp Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Completely wrong; the 9th AF was based in Britain well before D-Day: this is the disposition of its forces in Britain 1 June 1944: Ok...sounds good! They had most of the P-47's squadrons in Theater, correct? And they were not using 100/150 grade..... :thumbup: Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250
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