BF 109 K4

[fastfreddie]

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/109myths/#takeoff

 

Great post. Most of the comments were about the E/G models but the 109 definitely sounds like it will be more beginner friendly than the Mustang.

[bongodriver]

Which makes little sense at all.

[NineLine]

Great post. Most of the comments were about the E/G models but the 109 definitely sounds like it will be more beginner friendly than the Mustang.

 

I think that each and everyone one of these planes will have their own challenges, I dont think any WWII aircraft was all that beginner friendly.... That said, I am sure each aircraft has their points that are better than the others... so lets just see how they are shake out :)

[Demon_]

This link is from Gavagai: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=123538&page=4

[fastfreddie]

I think that each and everyone one of these planes will have their own challenges, I dont think any WWII aircraft was all that beginner friendly.... That said, I am sure each aircraft has their points that are better than the others... so lets just see how they are shake out :)

 

I'm more referring to the stall characteristics that they repeatedly compared to with the P51. All these planes should offer some different advantages/disadvantages and require different tactics to employ them effectively but a lot of people(myself included) had trouble with the stall characteristics in the beginning with the P51.

[USARStarkey]

I think you'll find the 109 has plenty of its own teething issues. The roll was known to snatch due to the slats deploying for example. If its anything like BOS's 109 it will waffle all over the place when trying to get a guns solution sometimes depending on what you were doing right before. I made a video detailing how the 109 behaves at high alt in BOS. Who knows what it will be like in DCS though.

 

I am being very light on the controls btw. It is a 109G2, not a K4 like were getting. K4 will have more power but a higher wing loading as well. I'm honestly quite curious to see how it performs.

Edited May 6, 2014 by USARStarkey

[OutOnTheOP]

I think you'll find the 109 has plenty of its own teething issues. The roll was known to snatch due to the slats deploying for example. If its anything like BOS's 109 it will waffle all over the place when trying to get a guns solution sometimes depending on what you were doing right before. I made a video detailing how the 109 behaves at high alt in BOS. Who knows what it will be like in DCS though.

 

I am being very light on the controls btw. It is a 109G2, not a K4 like were getting. K4 will have more power but a higher wing loading as well. I'm honestly quite curious to see how it performs.

 

In that video, you seem to be doing 250-270 kph; or roughly 160 mph. Even assuming the readout was IAS, that still means you were only doing roughly 200 knots true. At 20,000 feet altitude. I'm amazed the aircraft even stays aloft at all- it "waffling" in that corner of the flight envelope should be no surprise

[USARStarkey]

I was going that slow because the plane decelerates unbelievably fast at that alt and I was trying to get to a sustained turn speed without any flaps. Although TBH, like you said 130mph without flaps at that altitude is kind of preposterous. It doesn't help it turn either as you saw. It wont maintain any airspeed above that either when turning at that altitude. It goes from 300mph to nil in about 2 seconds. I seriously doubt the DCS aircraft will fly like this. I was just trying to make a point that 109 wont be any easier to fly necessarily.

[NineLine]

IMHO Teething issues is a somewhat odd word to be used with the penultimate development model of the 109.. in any case, the rather insignificant snatching "issue" you mention occurred with the 109E (and possibly previous) models only, not with the 109(F/G/)K.

 

The K is, in any case, an all-time favorite of many in all flight sims due to its extreme potential in good hands; at the same time, its usually loathed by those who fly against it. :)

 

 

What flight sims was it favoured in, and how detailed were their flight models? I stand by my statement, it may have some benefits over another aircraft, but it will have its own challenges to master, I dont think many of us have many hours of real flight time in an WWII aircraft. I am pretty excited to try out all of them and hope the P-51D has at least prepared me a little for what challenges might come.

 

I do agree though, we are getting aircraft that were farther down the development chain, many issues were probably worked out... but they are still fighters from the 40's... they are all gonna be a handful in one way or another.

[DB 605]

Which makes little sense at all.

 

It does make sense indeed, because 109 really was one of the easiest ww2 fighter to fly. No nasty stall behavior, no snapping, automated coolers/prop pitch etc. Take-off and landing are different thing tought, but not too hard if you know what to do.

[bongodriver]

being one of the easiest fighters to fly does not automatically qualify as beginner friendly, all these machines had complexities.

[NineLine]

It does make sense indeed, because 109 really was one of the easiest ww2 fighter to fly. No nasty stall behavior, no snapping, automated coolers/prop pitch etc. Take-off and landing are different thing tought, but not too hard if you know what to do.

 

If you were a WWII pilot with some experience... I doubt green pilots jumped in and became aces :) That said, I would have to believe that the German planes are going to be a blast to get to know... its hard to argue against the fact that the Germans were putting out some of the best aircraft during that time.

[DB 605]

If you were a WWII pilot with some experience... I doubt green pilots jumped in and became aces :)

 

Indeed, like you said, we are talking about 40's planes and they all sure are handfull to inexperienced pilots.

 

Here are some more finnish pilots comments to those who are interested. (they are about G2/6 but should be true with K4 too in most cases.)

"Mersu" is finnish nickname to Messerschmitt, same nickname is used with Mercedes-benz cars.

 

 

 

 

[NineLine]

Best thing said so far in this thread. Who knows where he is. Wouldn't be surprised if he's here in some guise however, they've infected every other WW2 aviation forum, and even turn up in ones not directly related to that but someone said the word "109"

 

Also, the snagging issue occurred on the later variants of 109 as well.

 

This is a new forum, not coloured yellow, its a newly turned page, all previous silliness should be left behind, lets not drag any of that extra baggage here please.

[Isegrim]

Having those effects at night would be nice in DCS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:megalol:

[DB 605]

Yes they would indeed. :thumbup:

[SlipBall]

also the canopy blowing around, grass, and the exhaust heat distortion would be a nice touch...dreaming a bit :)

 

[DB 605]

And, especially the sounds of mighty Daimler-Benz:

 

 

 

Edit, nevermind, get it.

Edited July 12, 2014 by DB 605
youtube

[Isegrim]

also the canopy blowing around, grass, and the exhaust heat distortion would be a nice touch...dreaming a bit :)

 

 

 

Which Flathead puts music on such Videos especialy the onboard scenes.

 

:doh:

 

Goddamit:doh::doh::doh::doh:NNOOHOHO NOOOOO:doh::doh::doh::doh::bored:

[Isegrim]

Best Sound:

 

Best overall:

[DB 605]

Which Flathead puts music on such Videos especialy the onboard scenes.

 

 

 

AFAIK that clip was taken from japanese document and music is added there to hide commentator voice.

[DB 605]

Best Sound:

 

Best overall:

 

Great sounds there too with HD quality:

 

[Isegrim]

AFAIK that clip was taken from japanese document and music is added there to hide commentator voice.

 

 

Which flathead comments such videos:D

[Isegrim]

Great sounds there too with HD quality:

 

 

 

I heard this has been Mr. Klaus Plasas last flight with *Rote 7*.

He did a very stupid mistake with that beauty only one day later, Making mr.

USARStarkey's Sig picture.

 

And i also heard it wasnt his first time doing that.

[DB 605]

I heard this has been Mr. Klaus Plasas last flight with *Rote 7*.

He did a very stupid mistake with that beauty only one day later, Making mr.

USARStarkey's Sig picture.

 

And i also heard it wasnt his first time doing that.

 

Yep, it's recorded day before accident and belly landing. I've heard those rumors too but don't know what to believe. Plasa was pilot of Rote 7 for many years so it sounds quite weird.