Looking for comprehensive dumb bombing guides

[Jona33]

For canopy references, have a look at this image (note they are rough "rule of thumb" guides and will take some practice to get it right).

 

Now that is really handy. Cheers.

 

Hey Jona, long time no see :)

 

Hey man, how you doing?

[Supersheep]

I found this doc from the NATRACOM for deliveries in the T-45. I assume that the physics involved are "roughly" the same, but I've been surprised too often here that I'd train with that doc without additional input.

 

 

@Jona, OT

I'm not sure if you noticed , but in Oct, I stepped back from CoG staff and am now with the 223rd CAS. I'm hapy to forward regards from B1 though, I was in contact with him just the day before yesterday.

 

 

 

Supersheep

[JayPee]

Looking for comprehensive dumb bombing guides

 

For canopy references, have a look at this image (note they are rough "rule of thumb" guides and will take some practice to get it right).

 

 

Eddie, what do you mean by the tip-in line? Should I start the roll-in when my target is on that line? Red lines are perfectly clear.

[Stuka]

Indeed, the tip in line, is the point where you start your roll in.

As Eddie has said, it is a rule of thumb, a lot of practice is needed.

[JayPee]

Looking for comprehensive dumb bombing guides

 

Thanks.

 

Obivously a general rule of thumb, but you have start somewhere. I imagine it also differs per seat/head setting.

 

With all replies here and the flame topic at least the theory is starting to make sense. Now it's probably going to come down to getting it done properly(ish) in-sim.

 

Off topic: the stuff ED left out in their documentation amazes me more and more. Really, how did they think we would be able to manage?

Edited December 9, 2013 by JayPee

[JayPee]

Looking for comprehensive dumb bombing guides

 

Btw, in the other topic I noticed somebody saying one should start practicing with a straight dive delivery instead of rolling into a dive.

 

What would that mean? Head straight for the target, 180 roll to inverted flight, pull, 180 roll back to level, deliver? I don't think A-10s are made for that given their sluggishness?

[Supersheep]

Link, please?

I don't think that's a good proposition. It removes the horizonal apparent movement from the ballistics problem and makes you easier to shoot at. While I don't think that the A-10 would have too much of a problem with such a maneuver, it might be more disorientating on a pilot, too. However, I don't think these factors were considered, I rather imagine someone pushing down the nose. And it would make it harder to get used to the real routine, too.

[Flagrum]

Btw, in the other topic I noticed somebody saying one should start practicing with a straight dive delivery instead of rolling into a dive.

 

What would that mean? Head straight for the target, 180 roll to inverted flight, pull, 180 roll back to level, deliver? I don't think A-10s are made for that given their sluggishness?

I am for no means an expert on this topic, but/therefore I'd stick to how the pros here in this thread do and teach it.

a) "straight dive": you would probably not see your target as it is beneath your nose. So, when will you start your dive?

b) I'd guess, it leaves you way too long and way too static for enemy fire

c) the correct way just looks much more bad ass :o)

[JayPee]

Looking for comprehensive dumb bombing guides

 

I'd have to search the whole thread for that manually because I don't recall the exact words. However, that person didn't gove any further explanation besides "a straight dive".

 

Regarding a push, perhaps pilots push from straight and level to -10* but I think that's the maximum they would push, based on Eddie et al. on the topic of not pushing negative Gs. But even then you would have the issue of not seeing the target prior to the final stage whereas you would if it were at your 2/10 I guess.

Edited December 9, 2013 by JayPee

[Supersheep]

Is it #86 in here that you are referring to? Not entirely convincing IMHO, especially considering what the thread is about in the first place.

[Eddie]

I have no idea what is being referred to in that post, but I'll simply say learn to do it right from the start. Learning things the wrong way is not easier or more effective, or a good stepping stone.

 

As far as negative g, the only time you'd use a pushover is a bump up attack with forward firing ordnance, but that's a whole other thing you really shouldn't worry about until you've learnt, and become reasonably proficient with a normal dive delivery.

[JayPee]

Yes sir!:joystick:

[taps]

How many bombs would you realistically drop on a T-80 in 45° dive attack?

[Eddie]

For a single point target like a vehicle you'd most likely want to be dropping two in a ripple. Three would also be an option depending how many you are carrying. But ultimately there is no single answer as with many things it depends on a long list of factors , some of which apply to DCS and some that don't.

[JayPee]

Looking for comprehensive dumb bombing guides

 

With 75ft spacing? A tank is what, 18ft long and 8ft wide?

 

So I take it the general idea is to crush the tank between two pressure waves? Or are we talking CBUs here?

[Supersheep]

My unqualified .02:

 

-since we've been talking Mk 82s so far, I assume it's them

-chances are one bomb is going to land closer than 75/2 feet

-there's more to break on/in a tank than the armor

-two CBU seems excessive

[taps]

My unqualified .02:

 

-since we've been talking Mk 82s so far, I assume it's them

-chances are one bomb is going to land closer than 75/2 feet

-there's more to break on/in a tank than the armor

-two CBU seems excessive

 

In my experience, to destroy a T-80 a bomb needs to land closer than 15ft (at least!).

[JayPee]

Looking for comprehensive dumb bombing guides

 

I don't want to argue in this topic but I'm sure I recall someone stating armour needs at least a direct hit from a 500 lb or a 2000 lb in close proximity to be destroyed.

 

But a 500 lb 20 ft away might cause enough damage to disable the tracks, the main gun, and the machine gun on top I guess.

Edited December 10, 2013 by JayPee

[Xavven]

I don't want to argue in this topic but I'm sure I recall someone stating armour needs at least a direct hit from a 500 lb or a 2000 lb in close proximity to be destroyed.

 

But a 500 lb 20 ft away might cause enough damage to disable the tracks, the main gun, and the machine gun on top I guess.

 

Oh how I would love to see damage modeled like this for ground units! Eagle Dynamics has done an absolutely stellar job with modelling aircraft damage, especially with the advanced flight model. It seems like a lot of work, which is probably the only reason they haven't done it already, but disabled tracks, engine, etc. would be awesome!

[JayPee]

Eddie, do sleds such as those in the battle book also exist for LAT/MAT and/or gun and rocket strafes?

[Supersheep]

Does LAT/MAT mean Low Altitude/Medium Altitude Toss?

[JayPee]

Looking for comprehensive dumb bombing guides

 

Yes!

[Eddie]

Eddie, do sleds such as those in the battle book also exist for LAT/MAT and/or gun and rocket strafes?

 

Yes, and no. Real world examples can be found online if you look hard enough, but the delivery planner we use in the 476th can't do LAT/MAT yet so they are not in the battle book for now.

 

Yes, LAT/MAT are Low/Medium Altitude Toss.

[JayPee]

Looking for comprehensive dumb bombing guides

 

Ah it seems the hawgsmoke 2012 PDF covers it a bit, pp. 15-17.

 

Super, fionikos.org is sharing via their FTP. You can Google it.

Edited December 15, 2013 by JayPee

[Supersheep]

That's another story, I still need to finish wrapping my head around the original deliveries. I'm away from my rig for the next three weeks (approx) so that's going to take some time anyways. Having had a first look at that doc, I think I confused some of the parameters given there, at least it didn't add up when I mentally tried to fly the delivery. That needs more studying for sure.