britgliderpilot Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 For the Anatolian Hawk campaign, I'm looking for a little more accurate theatre info that I'm having some difficulty finding. If you can answer any of the above, would appreciate it: How many F4s does Turkey have? How many AMRAAMs were delivered with the F16s? Does Turkey operate the F16 with the AIM-7? It has the capability to carry it, and they have stocks for their F4s . . . . . anyone? How many Hawk sites did Turkey actually buy? Sukhoi fuel loads - the Su27/33 has a massive fuel capacity, but IIRC to fill it you need to access a reserve tank that's a complete hassle and rarely used. So 9400kg is the max, but the operational max is less . . . . anyone know what the capacities are? Anyone have any useful data on Su33 max carrier launch/max return weights? If you can state the source you got any data from, that would be so much the better - Janes may be more accurate than dave's fighterplane page on geocities ;) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/britgliderpilot/BS2Britgliderpilot-1.jpg
MBot Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 Turkey: F-16 Fighting Falcon D Block 5076 F-16 Fighting Falcon C/D Block 30 und Block 40144 F-4 Terminator E/202052 F-4 Phantom II E/D 94 RF-4E Phantom II Aufklärer E 34 RF/F-5 Freedom Fighter A/B 67 AIM-120 AMRAAM A/B 314 AIM-7 Sparrow E 367 AIM-9 Sidewinder M 500 AIM-9 Sidewinder L/I, hitzesuchend 640 AIM-9 Sidewinder S 310 AIM-9 Sidewinder P3 750 AGM-88 HARM (Anti-Radar) B 96 AGM-65 Maverick A/B Version TV-gelenkt 550 AGM-65 Maverick G Version IIR 274 GBU-8 B Version HOBOS 200 Paveway I und II 1.200 Popeye I (von Israel) 100 BLU-107 Durandal 523 AN/AAQ-14 LANTIRN-Behälter 40 AN/AAQ-13 LANTIRN-Behälter 40 FIM92 C / RMP Starter 108 MIM-14 Nike/Hercules B 72 Rapier FSB1 83 MIM 23 B Improved Hawk PIP III / Batterien 24 http://www.globaldefence.net/index.htm?http://www.globaldefence.net/deutsch/eurasien/tuerkei/tuerkei.htm Hope that helps :)
Cobra360 Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 The Su-27s normal internal fuel load without using the extra internal tank is 11,620lbs (5,200kg). Full with extra tank is 20,720lbs (9,400kgs).
britgliderpilot Posted February 11, 2006 Author Posted February 11, 2006 The Su-27s normal internal fuel load without using the extra internal tank is 11,620lbs (5,200kg). Full with extra tank is 20,720lbs (9,400kgs). Half the fuel's in the reserve tank? Oof . . . . you got a source for that? Cheers MBot, that'll come in very handy! :) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/britgliderpilot/BS2Britgliderpilot-1.jpg
Cobra360 Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 Yep, they are the stats in a World Combat Aircraft feature on the Flanker back from 1999. It had a almost complete stats page on the Flanker, empty weights, fuel weights etc. Thats the same internal fuel as F-15A but a little less than the F-15C. It must be a massive tank, its tank no.4 in the centre of the airframe, just behind the airbrake and extending halfway down between the engines.
britgliderpilot Posted February 11, 2006 Author Posted February 11, 2006 Yep, they are the stats in a World Combat Aircraft feature on the Flanker back from 1999. It had a almost complete stats page on the Flanker, empty weights, fuel weights etc. Thats the same internal fuel as F-15A but a little less than the F-15C. It must be a massive tank, its tank no.4 in the centre of the airframe, just behind the airbrake and extending halfway down between the engines. That sounds pretty reputable - also sounds like something very handy to have! Any chance you could scan it (or high-res digital pic, at least) and email it? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/britgliderpilot/BS2Britgliderpilot-1.jpg
britgliderpilot Posted February 11, 2006 Author Posted February 11, 2006 OK, finding a bit more info on Sukhoi tank no.s and it's not adding up - from a KeyPublishingForums debate on Su30MKI fuel loads (they have good debates there): You can arrive at the 10,000 kg fuel load for the MKI if you assume that the volume of the No.4 fuel tank is the same as the one on the Su-35. i.e 1990 liters. Page 283 second column, 1st paragraph. Thats 4020 + 5030 + 1350 + 1990 (instead of 1270) = 12,690 liters. That with Fuel Density of 0.785= 9,961.65 or 38.35 kgs short of the 10K mark. This ties in with the table on Page 303 and what Harry has posted. 1990 kilos (or even 1270 kilos) from 9400 does not bring it down to 5200kg . . . . they haven't posted the table on fuel capacities, but you can guess that corresponds to tank 4. Tank 1 I recall from elsewhere imposes a maneuvring limit because it's in the wrong place relative to the CG position - so the Sukhoi not working properly until it gets down to 60% fuel isn't just a loading thing ;) Either way . . . . . it's all still interesting, will see how far we can dig! :) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/britgliderpilot/BS2Britgliderpilot-1.jpg
Guest IguanaKing Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 OMG! Somebody out there still operates the Nike Hercules?! :icon_supe
Force_Feedback Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 Ok, this is from a Russian language mgazine, having a feature of the su-33. They said successful take-offs have been made from the Kuznetsov with the following conditions: -With full fuel load, and 4 missiles (weight almost 30000 kg), take offs have been made form the 1st starting position (to the left is the 2nd starting position, then the 3rd position, which is intended for the su-25utg, with the longest run up distance), with a forward speed of the Kuznetsov of 7kts. -With maximum fuel load, and full missile complement (8xR-27E, 4xR-73, total weight: 32200 kg) take-off should be from the 3rd starting position (take-off distance: 195m), the Kuz should travel at 15kts. So everything up to 30000kg is alright when using the vanilla take-off position in lomac (Don't know if you can change it with those .lua scripts). The maximum normal landing weight (not specified wether it's for a carrier trap or runway landing) is 24400 kg. The maximal allowable landing weight is 26000 kg. 1 Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy:
Pilotasso Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 Turkey: F-16 Fighting Falcon D Block 5076 F-16 Fighting Falcon C/D Block 30 und Block 40144 F-4 Terminator E/202052 F-4 Phantom II E/D 94 RF-4E Phantom II Aufklärer E 34 RF/F-5 Freedom Fighter A/B 67 AIM-120 AMRAAM A/B 314 AIM-7 Sparrow E 367 AIM-9 Sidewinder M 500 AIM-9 Sidewinder L/I, hitzesuchend 640 AIM-9 Sidewinder S 310 AIM-9 Sidewinder P3 750 AGM-88 HARM (Anti-Radar) B 96 AGM-65 Maverick A/B Version TV-gelenkt 550 AGM-65 Maverick G Version IIR 274 GBU-8 B Version HOBOS 200 Paveway I und II 1.200 Popeye I (von Israel) 100 BLU-107 Durandal 523 AN/AAQ-14 LANTIRN-Behälter 40 AN/AAQ-13 LANTIRN-Behälter 40 FIM92 C / RMP Starter 108 MIM-14 Nike/Hercules B 72 Rapier FSB1 83 MIM 23 B Improved Hawk PIP III / Batterien 24 http://www.globaldefence.net/index.htm?http://www.globaldefence.net/deutsch/eurasien/tuerkei/tuerkei.htm Hope that helps :) Hmm Usualy weapons inventory details are HIGHLY secretive. Where did you get this info from? .
MBot Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 Hmm Usualy weapons inventory details are HIGHLY secretive. Where did you get this info from? Klick on the link in my first post, then continue towards "Luftstreitkraft ( Air Force )". No idea how accurate this is, but it is better than nothing.
192nd_Erdem Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 Here's the source of the info ;)Turkey.rar
britgliderpilot Posted February 11, 2006 Author Posted February 11, 2006 Hmm Usualy weapons inventory details are HIGHLY secretive. Where did you get this info from? The pdf says it refers to number purchased, not numbers in current inventory. Deals like this are usually high-profile and public, so that makes sense. It says 138 AMRAAM as opposed to 690 Sparrow, so carrying the Sparrow on the F16 may make sense. However, still no evidence as to whether they do or not . . . . will check airliners.net for photographic evidence, worth looking. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/britgliderpilot/BS2Britgliderpilot-1.jpg
Force_Feedback Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 The pdf says it refers to number purchased, not numbers in current inventory. Deals like this are usually high-profile and public, so that makes sense. It says 138 AMRAAM as opposed to 690 Sparrow, so carrying the Sparrow on the F16 may make sense. However, still no evidence as to whether they do or not . . . . will check airliners.net for photographic evidence, worth looking. You might want to head over to the "egoism is bliss" forum, aka the f-16.net forum. Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy:
MBot Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 It says 138 AMRAAM as opposed to 690 Sparrow, so carrying the Sparrow on the F16 may make sense. I am no expert on the F-16, but I tought that only the F-16A ADF is compatible with the Sparrow. Also take into account that the Sparrow that is in the turkish inventory is the version AIM-7E wich has shown a extremly poore pk and is considered obsolete by now. Altough we have only the AIM-7M in LOMAC so it wouldn't matter.
britgliderpilot Posted February 11, 2006 Author Posted February 11, 2006 You might want to head over to the "egoism is bliss" forum, aka the f-16.net forum. Could I stand the stress? ;) I am no expert on the F-16, but I tought that only the F-16A ADF is compatible with the Sparrow. Also take into account that the Sparrow that is in the turkish inventory is the version AIM-7E wich has shown a extremly poore pk and is considered obsolete by now. Altough we have only the AIM-7M in LOMAC so it wouldn't matter. All kinds of sources say the Turkish F-16 is compatible with the AIM-7 - still have no pictures or other proof that it actually carries it operationally, though. Making your aircraft compatible with your existing stock of missiles is good practice - keeps your options open. If the missile version is as you say, then they'd be unlikely to carry them operationally anyway - cheers! :) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/britgliderpilot/BS2Britgliderpilot-1.jpg
Cobra360 Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 Some export customers asked for their F-16s to be AIM-7 compatible,five or seven, Turkey being one of them. I can't remember the others off-hand. In the USAF, only the ADFs were AIM-7 compatible.
Pilotasso Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 Some export customers asked for their F-16s to be AIM-7 compatible,five or seven, Turkey being one of them. I can't remember the others off-hand. In the USAF, only the ADFs were AIM-7 compatible.~ My countries AF remaining F-16 ADF's have Sparrow capability. Dunno if missiles were actualy aquired. .
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