Bimbac

Hi, well that's how it looks like but if you take a look at the first page of this thread, you will see that there were some questions about Gripen, so I just wanted to contribute, that's all. But I agree that it got a little out of hand...:huh: Looks to me that Poland got her hands on some serious weaponry :thumbup: I would be delighted if these Vipers ever show up at our airbase... By the way, nice pictures! Everybody here, keep up the good work! :pilotfly:

I agree, but there is nobody here to to talk about the original topic, so we have to spend our time with something else... ;) I would like to know some technical details about Polish Vipers. Could you help me with that?

Confirmed.

Please try to read the WHOLE post before you write something. I have written that Gripen's radar can work in passive mode, which means that if the aircraft is jamming, you can see the signal source on your scope, but since you cannot determine the range (you would need to know the specific impulse power output of the jammer, which can change rapidly), two aircraft working in tandem and approaching from TWO different vectors can triangulate the jammer's position quite accurately. By the way, jammer can produce several false informations, for example, azimuth, distance, altitude. But if you are just listening, you would know precisely the position (both azimuth and altitude, but not the distance) of the signal source. This is the principle of passive detection - you have two or more (more is better) receivers in specific pattern, and by triangulation, you can pinpoint the location of any active emmiter. And remember, you can fool the radar, but not in passive mode. However, this works in opposite way too, so if you have two or more jammers available, you can do the same to all active systems, but not the passive ones.

It's not about different jamming types and emmiters, it's about the tactics and methods how to defeat it. For example, if you have two aircraft with HOJ capability and datalink, they can triangulate position of the jammer with pinpoint accuracy. So it doesn't matter if you are jamming the radar, since it can work in passive mode as well. That's the reason why many air forces conduct a very thorough research how to jam the datalink and communications, because without these you are really blind. Most modern jammers can even create false targets, so you cannot distinguish between real and false. They can even record the comms of your wingman and play it back on your frequency, which can create a perfect mess. Modern air combat is like playing cat and mouse - you turn on your radar, it's being jammed, you turn it off, jammer turns off as well. He who can do more nasty things to the other, usually wins. By the way, never underestimate the Sweedes. They have more knowledge than you could possibly imagine ;)

Yes, they are ;) By the way our Gripens have similar features, among others excellent ECCM capability. Don't try to jam the Gripen, it's worthless :)

This is true, but applies only to Swedish Gripens.

I have similar book directly from SAAB, which was given to me at the end of my training. The problem is that these books are based on facts from late 1990's, in the best case from early 2000's, thus not very accurate, since there were some quite important changes in systems, avionics and users. If you want some up-to-date information, you need to search the web. Believe me, there is a lot of good websites with plenty of information about Gripen, like the one I posted earlier. Anyway, do you have any information about Polish Vipers? I mean some more technical stuff? :) By the way, I am tempted by an idea to create a thread here about real air forces and combat tactics, but so far there is no point because it's not much use in Lock On yet. Maybe after Black Shark release...;)

Seems like this thread has gone dead. It's a pity. :(

Well, since I am quite familiar with it, I can tell that a few features are worth improving, but in general it's a product of ingenious mind :thumbup: Especially the MFDs are great, but as I said there is always a place for improvement ;)

Thank you for your help. I cannot post any pictures here anyway. So, what do you think about the cockpit? :thumbup:

Of course I remember their names, but I cannot post them here for obvious reasons. About that sound, this phenomenon occures when the airplane flies at transonic speeds. The sound waves tend to move with the same velocity, they cannot "overtake" the plane, so that's why you cannot hear it in advance, but only when it passes you. The other perfect example of this is when the aircraft descends from high altitude while accelerating. Even if the airplane doesn't fly supersonic, the actual sound arrives much later that the airplane itself. This can be used as a tactical advantage, so if you are flying low and fast, the enemy won't notice you via sound, so you can perform a suprise attack.:thumbup:

Yeah, definitely :) You know, I actually see Gripens almost every day, because it's part of my job, if you get my meaning ;) I see them even more often than my own wife :( Its noise level is about the same but what I really like is the sound of the Gripen performing high-speed pass. On one occasion the pilot performed a low-altitude, high-speed (around M 0.95) flyover and we didn't know about it, until he was right above our heads. We almost crapped our pants :D

Finally some ally :) I hope so too. I have actually met some Hungarian pilots who fly Gripen. Very nice guys, by the way. Correct ;) Right now Czech Gripens in QRA are armed with Cannon and AIM-9M only, but AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM will be delivered soon. In QRA you need to visually identify the bogey, so the lack of BVR weapons is not so important. Regards!

If there's anybody interested in seeing Czech Gripens in action, look here: http://211.airspace.cz/fotogalerie.html All text is in Czech but I guess the pictures speak for themselves.

I guess you have meant 0.7 for the Gripen. According to your numbers it would make it a ballistic missile. ;) Other important factor is wing loading. More your wings have to carry (weight of the airplane), less power you have for maneuvering. There are more parameters, but right now I can't figure out correct terms in English. Would anybody help? :) No, we don't have. But if we had some spare money to buy some Anti-ship missiles, it would be a different story. My point here is that Gripen is capable of Anti-shipping mission, but not SEAD. On the other hand, Polish F-16 is a formidable SEAD platform, but it cannot carry AShMs.

That's exactly why we all have joined the NATO ;). Polish Air Force could call us to deal with some naval intruders in the same way we would ask them to eliminate some Air Defence radars :) To Pilotasso: Well, no one knows everything :( But generation differences are not made just by airframes, but also the systems. AESA, all-digital avionics and 2-axis thrust vectoring are the main features of 5th generation aircraft, and the newest MiG and Sue have all of them. Personally I would call them 4+ generation. As a fact, their aerodynamic features are unmatched so far. To TucksonSonny: I think there is nothing wrong about being proud. I don't believe that the mere fact having Gripen would make us invincible. I just dared to say that Gripen is an excellent aircraft and weapon system, that's all.

That's the very thing I was trying to tell you all day ;)

Quite right, sorry ;) Just returned from 12h straight shift at work. But it's not in active duty yet as well, there are a few squadrons in Europe that already have it, but they are not rated for combat yet. We are :) The EF-2000 was designed for Air Superiority duties, while Gripen is primarily a homeland defence fighter. Gripen could be compared with Mirage 2000, F-16 and other tactical single-engine fighters, considering its performance, but in terms of performance vs. money and operational value, it is superior to all of these. I would dare to compare Eurofighter with French Rafale and American F-22. Gripen is completely different league.

As promised: http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/gripen/ By the way, why the particular aircraft is obtained by the country is mostly a political question. Swedish program for the Czech Republic included offsets as well and there are even some Czech companies participating on Gripen manufacturing and development. Getting a new hot airplane is not just about the airplane itself, it's about technology and infrastructure. To some people here: I didn't mean to suggest that MiG-21-93 or later versions of F-16 are bad airplanes, but Gripen is the only 4th generation aircraft currently in active service in NATO inventory, and that's the FACT. F-22 and F-35 are surely much more advanced, but they are not in active duty yet, at least F-35. They are 5+ generation aircraft as well as Russian Su-35 and latest versions of Su-30 and MiG-29/35. But I repeat: None of these is in active duty yet. Major difference between generations of warplanes is the adaptability and system design. For example, if you want Gripen to employ new type of Air-to-Air missile, you just upload a new software. This is not the case with older aircraft, however, some of them are capable of the same, although limited upgradeability, thus called 3+ generation.

Try to use Google for a start. I will pass some reference later. By the way, I'm already in touch with Olgerd, but tactical manuals are classified stuff, and all the Gripen manuals are classified as well. I have the necessary security clearance, but of course I cannot disclose any information. Let's wait some 20-30 years and the info will surely be available ;)

You mean the pilots certified both for Viper and Gripen? :) Ain't gonna happen, I'm afraid :( By the way, there should be the Open day at Čáslav Air Force Base this year, so if you'd like to see the Gripen up close and personal, that would be your chance. Maybe we could even meet each other ;)

Well, actually we already have a number of Gripen pilots certified for combat missions. Our fighters fly on 24/7 basis in NATINEADS, and that's the place where you need Combat Ready pilots ;) But I would prefer some nice meeting at the bar with glasses of good beer instead of fighting :)

May I ask you a question? Have you actually FLOWN any of these aircraft in real life? You are both right and wrong here. Personally I think that Poland got a very good platform (F-16C b. 52+), more versatile but not more capable. It can carry more fuel and more weapons, but it's one generation older aircraft. Gripen's data processing and weapon intergration capabilities go far beyond F-16. Gripen's datalink is much more sophisticated than Viper's one, for example. As I posted in a different thread, dogfights are much more than just a few turns. And you just can't get two papers, each with the aircraft data, and compare them on that basis. As I told many people here for many times: It's a man, not a machine, that wins battles! My conclusion is that F-16 could beat a Gripen in a dogfight under certain circumstances, for instance high altitude, better SA, etc., but Gripen can turn tighter, faster and accelerate more rapidly. It's a delta wing, of course, but its aerodynamic layout is just better, not to mention its more advanced avionics, for example the Electronic Warfare System. There is a plenty of information about Gripen's avionics suite on the web, if you are intersted. Maybe someday we will have joint exercise with Polish Air Force and then we could compare our aircraft in much better way. ;) Regards!

Both Mirage and F-16 would lose to Gripen. We have already proved this. On one occasion there was a training 2 v 1 dogfight. 2 Belgian F-16s vs 1 Gripen. Our pilot managed to wipe-out BOTH F-16s in just ONE PASS. This was not staged, it was a full-contact dogfight (no live ammo, of course) :) I guess no more comment is needed. BVR combat is like a game of chess, but not so matematically simple. There are too many variables, so you really can't guess the results until it actually happens. But believe me, Gripen is one of the most agile and capable fighters in the world and we are very proud to have them.