Teej

My definitions: Hibernate: Contents of RAM are written to disk and machine goes to a complete power-down state, can be disconnected from power for months without loss of data, etc. Maximal power savings as the system is shut completely off. On turning the machine back on, you get a full POST, may see "resuming windows", etc. Sleep: System goes to a minimal power state - fans & drives shut down, etc, but not a full power off. RAM maintained under power (I think?). Loss of power results in loss of unsaved data, etc. Near total power savings because nothing is actually running. When activated it takes about 2 seconds from a silent system to having a desktop back. Standby: Very little power savings - display shut off, fans keep running, etc. Also very quick to resume since nothing is actually shut down. By those definitions, I use "sleep" mode, and if my throttle is plugged into the motherboard, the LEDs do go dark for me. Here's a little more detail from: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/omars/archive/2004/05/11/129553.aspx My lights go off in S3.

Good luck ;) I'm out for pretty much ~ 12 hr now.

Odd. That's (exactly) how mine was set up when I tested it and it went dark instantly on sleep mode, despite the fact that it's sensitive enough to wake up on a keyboard hit, monitor power change (monitor acts as a USB hub), turning my laser printer on, etc. Pardon the stupid question...you've gone into TARGET and seen the rev 10/18 firmwares loaded? got the "supershort" blink of the 5 LEDs when you plug it in?

@kylania: Plugged into motherboard or powered hub? (sorry if you've said before)

Start / Devices & Printers Right-click on either the stick or throttle Click 'Game Controller Settings'

Yes. If you're mostly playing DCS A-10C and just want to see functionality, you can use Windows' control panel / game controllers. If you're playing other stuff and also want to be able to program for them, You can download TARGET from TM's site.... http://ts.thrustmaster.com/eng/index.php?pg=view_files&gid=1&fid=3&pid=311&cid=5 It has a "device analyzer" along with it. If you also have a Cougar, you can get Foxy's analyzers to work with it. The software wasn't ready yet. Still isn't "release"...it's "release candidate" but pretty good. I'd suggest also updating the firmware regardless of whether you want to use TARGET or not. There's been some people who have had their Warthog firmware get corrupted. The firmware stuff is: http://ts.thrustmaster.com/eng/index.php?pg=view_files&gid=1&fid=3&pid=311&cid=1

1: Close TARGET (or at least make sure a profile isn't running) 2: 2-position switches to the rear (EAC, RDR ALTM, ENG FLOW, APUetc). 3: 3 position switches (flaps, pinky, autopilot, speedbrake, boatswitch, ENG OPER) to the middle position (ie AP to "ALT/HDG", ENG OPER to 'NORM', etc). 4: Throttles off the idle stop. Done.

Good point. I wrote something about that but then rearranged my post and left that off. :D I nearly had to change my shorts at one point during this testing because I thought my WH had left the reservation. :D

I was about to say "I don't think so" but then decided I'd try it before I went off half-cocked....good thing. There are definitely some differences in the way the unit handles power....and I'd have to say...it just might fix that problem for you. When plugged into my system (EVGA x58 FTW3 motheboard), if I 'sleep' the computer, the throttle does indeed go dark. I normally keep my throttle plugged into the monitor, however (powered hub, essentially). The throttle does not go dark on that when 'sleep'ing the computer. Still gotta turn my monitor off to get the throttle lights to go off. However...the more interesting difference I see is when you plug the device in and/or un-sleep the computer. I used to get several seconds of the 5 LEDs, and when they went out it was at the same time the panel backlights kicked in. Now when I plug it in, the 5 LEDs just give a very brief flash...the throttle stays dark for a couple of seconds...and then the panel backlight comes on. They almost certainly did something here.

I stand by what I said - the profile isn't "donwloaded" to the stick like it was with the Cougar. Clearly something with the system has the potential to corrupt the firmware however. Whether that's the throttle (or stick) corrupting its own firmware during the initialization process when they're powered on (by plugging in to a computer) or TARGET writing something out there that I'm not aware of (which, as it stands today, I doubt but wouldn't swear isn't happening), I don't know.

Given that they specifically say your stick must be properly recognized in device manager and game controllers before using the firmware updater....I'd say 'yes'.

I suspect the last line of your post is the meat of the matter. "flash corruption" would be at least some of the dead stick/throttle problems. I've updated mine. Everything still works.

The box serial number is just the throttle. The stick has a different # usually..so far as I know the only way to read it is in TARGET... My stick/throttle differ numerically by over 100

I can offer a "very likely" explanation for the behavior of the lights. It is not based on any discussion with TM...I haven't looked for this in the doc...It's based on my own experiences with coding USB combined with my observation of the TMWH throttle....I could well be wrong (I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything!)... In terms of functionality, USB more closely resembles an ethernet connection than an old-school "serial" connection. There are differences here, so if anyone else has experience with this, yes, I know Windows behaves a bit different, but this is a _general_ explanation of the USB connection/enumeration process. I'm well aware it's not 100% technically accurate, but it's "correct enough" for this discussion. When you plug in a device, Windows recognizes the change in the USB...fabric, if you will. (The device starts drawing power and holds one of the signal lines low (or high? I forget. Been too long since I looked at it THAT deeply). At this point, the 5 LEDs on the Warthog come on. Windows acknowledges the new device (the device then releases the line) and Windows basically sends a message to the new device saying "Who are you?" The device responds with part of its identification info (device descriptor) which gives Windows a rough idea of what the device needs. Windows then sends back a reply saying "OK, you will be device XX on my network. Reset yourself and call back when the address is in place." The device clears itself out, sets the address and connects to Windows again. Window requests a more complete description of the device, format for data exchange, etc...and then the device is "live". I believe it is at that point that the 5 LEDs go out and the rest turn on - once the device is "addressed" and talking operationally to Windows. There is a mode where certain control positions while plugging it in tell the device to listen for firmware...but it's not like that 5-LED status "means" anything - just that the device isn't talking to Windows. It may be because it's cooked or there might be something wrong with Windows' registry or something else locked up on the USB circuit, etc. You cannot assume _anything_ from the 5 LED state other than that the device hasn't successfully enumerated to Windows. It will do that if you plug it into any USB power source where you don't have a host to talk to. As to why the lights stay on when you shut windows down...perhaps they didn't implement a "shut down" protocol to turn the lights off. I honestly don't remember if Windows sends a "shutdown" command to every USB device or not. Either way, motherboards (this isn't just a Windows thing) don't always shut down all power to the USB ports (otherwise you wouldn't be able to do a keystroke-power-on / resume) and the LEDs require so little power that it just doesn't shut itself down. Probably less than 100ma total for all the LEDs on the base...and at 5v, that's less than half a watt of power. The ****ing short version is this: (<- search youtube for 'big lebowski short version' if you don't find this funny. ;) ) I think the behavior Slammin mentions is fine/normal.

On my fresh built Win7, it was literally a no brainer...although it did need a reboot or two. I did it with the Warthog sticks already plugged in. I do not know if it's better or worse to do it that way vs unplugged. I know with the Cougar they wanted you to install the s/w & drivers before ever plugging in the Cougar, but I didn't see any such warnings here. I mostly saw the detection popups with my 5 year old XP install that had previous beta software that I was uninstalling. I'm sure that played into it somewhat. My point here was simply that: There are some people having real, actual problems - we know this is fact. I just don't think we need to scare people with unsubstantiated and/or plainly false rumors about things like TARGET bricking sticks - I *HIGHLY* doubt this has or even could happen. I also strongly doubt the unplugging with computer off bit is causing problems either...I suppose it's theoretically possible, but I'd bet against there being an actual causal relationship there....in part because I've done it a bunch of times.

Definitely something that isn't explained well. Or perhaps at all. When you're installing target...if you get 'device detection' boxes pop up asking you how you want to handle drivers (I've only seen this on XP, didn't see it on my Win7 install) Don't ****ing touch anything. It should get through those windows by itself with absolutely no intervention on your part. Clicking on anything there hosed my install a couple of times.

Re: Deigs & MTFDE....some people have had units fail, yes...but where are the reports of TARGET bricking the units and exactly how would you suggest it's doing that? TARGET doesn't write anything to the units. (Someday it will have to in order to change those 5 "programmable" LEDs...but at this point it doesn't.) At worst it might hose up the Windows recognition (and that could, in theory, be either a small or large number of the problems out there)...but that's a far cry from bricking it.

Ah, OK, yeah that would mess things up. I thought you'd already made the switch to using target vs the stock keybinds. You cannot change the the throttle curve with target while keeping everything else set in A10C. You'll have to go in and set user curves for your throttle. Be kinda a pain in the arse. Much easier to just...not turn that piece around.

OK, if you're doing it in TARGET, that's pretty easy. If you're doing it with A10C (without using target) I'd have to play with it to come up with the answer. But in TARGET... Open your profile. Go to the 2nd page (configure axes mapping). Click the green arrow by THRRIGHT (bottom left of screen) Change the pulldown to JCURVE if it isn't already Clear the reverse & relative boxes (if not already clear) Change the 'control position' slider to '81' Change the 'value of axis' slider to '96' Repeat for THRLEFT (exact same settings) T

I'd guess it's a batch / production run...or at least shipment...that went right to the asia/pacific market.

Into the float.... Back in May when Ray and I were testing out the Warthogs getting ready for E3... Into the float... On top, 28-0, 580 power back, back in with the pull.... Supersonic formation loop. :D

Heh. Yeah, no way to tell with that truck. (shrug) I just agree with the manual on every car I've owned: "Do not add anything to your oil." ;)

Your piston and cylinder walls will easily hit 300C during normal driving. Higher at max RPM of course. PTFE starts pyrolysis at 200C...breaking down more rapidly at 260 and fully melts at 327.

My own position stems from: 1: DuPont, inventor of Teflon / PTFE did not want to sell the product for use in oil. Slick50 had to file suit to force them to sell the product. Still, they are not allowed to use the name 'teflon' because DuPont did not want to be associated with that use. 2: PTFE is a solid compound, not a liquid. If that solid is going to "stick" to anything, it's going to stick to cooler, non-moving surfaces, not the sides of your pistons. 3: As a solid compound, your filter should be filtering it. If not, you need a better filter. 4: As a result of #3, you are now dirtying that oil filter and preventing it from doing its job. More oil will end up bypassing the filter and continuing to circulate oil contaminated by wear and combustion products. 5: Slick50 has been smacked down by the FTC for its unsubstantiated claims finally (at least for now) and most importantly.... 6: If this worked, everyone would be doing it. Motor oil companies spend big bucks on making the best additive package they can. If they could make a measurable improvement in mpg or engine wear, they'd roll out their own PTFE products and squash slick50 like a bug. Further, if it worked, car manufacturers would coat the engines with PTFE at the factory as part of trying to meet ever higher mileage requirements.

If TARGET has control of your Warthog, you cannot 'minimize' the TARGET window (you can bring other things on top of it, but you can't click the button to shrink it down). If you can click the [_] button and have TARGET drop down to the task bar, it has absolutely no control over your Warthog. It's the same as not running (or never having installed) TARGET. TARGET is only active when the window is "stuck" open with a configuration running.