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Posts posted by AvroLanc

  1. 56 minutes ago, skypickle said:

    i think i understand now why there is even the architecture of sight and acq. Because there are two people in the aircraft. Each person has his own eyepiece,and his own MFDs. Each person also has access to weapons. However there is only one pnvis and one TADS. So the first generation of this system probably was a way for the either the pilot or cpg to share these devices which became labeled acquisition sources. Because each person has his own eyepiece, his own the ability to store his own 'mark points' , and use his own MFDs,  a way was needed to give that person a label for the function that could serve this info yet be able to couple to a location on the ground derived from either the TADS(which is shared) or his stored mark points or just use the location of his head. Somewhere in the evolution of this system, someone imagined that using the location of the person's gaze (as measured by his head position) could also be a useful piece of information. So head position was added to TADS as an 'acquisition source'.  FCR will provide yet another way to get ground location data. Linked battle space data will be another acquisition source ( I think this was added to the AH-64E)


    In summary I would define an acquisition source as any gizmo that provides ground location data. I would define 'sight' as any gizmo that passes that info to the pilot and the weapon he has selected. So a sight would be the eyepiece thingy with its weapons interface or an MFD showing the TSD or the TEDAC.



    You're getting there.....not quite but nearly.... But you're correct in that the Apache is a complicated integrated weapon system with many ways of passing information backwards and forwards between both yourself and the Sights/System, and then also between front seat and back seat. Each guy has 3 Sights and there's 2 guys, and wingmen and ground force etc. That's alot of combinations. That's why it's a bit convoluted. And we haven't even touched on sharing/handing over targets between wingmen in a flight yet.

    Ohhh...TSD isn't a sight - only HMD + TADS + FCR.

    • Like 1
  2. 5 minutes ago, dresoccer4 said:

    does that create a target point or a pilot point?

    It creates a TRN (Terrain) point, not a true target point, but it's stored in target point T55. CPG's TRN point is T56.

    The pilot can't store a target point, except pre-planned threat points and pre-planed enemy control measures. He can use an overfly stored point though.

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  3. 35 minutes ago, skypickle said:

    @AvroLanc thank for trying to explain what seems to be a confusing topic.

    Most of the videos use these words differently. You stated:

    "If you removed the ACQ SOURCE concept from the whole helicopter, you could still go out and shoot up targets all day long with your 3 SIGHTS (HMD/TADS/FCR), just like the Hind or a fancy Huey. BUT….it’ll be much harder to know where to look, and more time consuming and extra effort to search and point with those 3 SIGHTS. "

    Typically, in the A10, the sights we use have 'their own 'brains'. The TGP can 'remember what it locked on to. And it can be locked onto what it sees or the current waypoint. The maverick can remember what it locked on to independently. The TAD can show me the SPI as well as data from the link and all the other aircraft in my net. The HMCS can show me the TGP video, where the TGP is looking, the SPI, as well as data from the link from other aircraft. I can point my weapon to a SPI generated with TADS , HMCS, TGP


    Your comment: 'the confusion is that a SIGHT can also be an ACQ source. ' is right on. Perhaps I need to make a list of three columns:

    1st column - display device ( and how it is selected). These are  the articulated borg-like thing on the pilot's helmet next to the eyeball, the same thing that is in front of the CPG eyeball, the TEDAC, the MFDs

    2nd column - sight (and how it is selected and manipulated - moved, zoomed, to which acquisition sources can it be 'slaved' to extract position data), The sights I can use are an MFD showing the TSD, an MFD showing video, the TEDAC.

    3rd column - acquisition source (and how it is moved, zoomed as well as where its data can be saved). Pushing the ACQ button on the MFD gives me a list of acquisition sources




    When I do this, then I start to see many combinations that can exist but dont make sense

    Conceivably I could make a chain like this

    pilot eyeball-> pilot'shelmet sight ->gunner sight -> TADS.. So what's the acquisition source in that example?


    CPG eyeball -> CPG helmet sight -> Pilot helmet sight -> TADS -> waypoint?


    add PNVIS, FCR in there and the soup gets murkier.


    And where does the TEDAC fit in? is it just a display or does it have it's own sighting system? Somewhere I read that the TEDAC has its own computer and sighting with the TEDAC is better than with the helmet.




    @PlainSight when you press 'slave' what are you slaving to?always the acquisition source? If that's the case, what are you slaving to the acquisition source- the display next to your eyeball, the TEDAC, the PNVIS, the video on the MFD? How do you pick 1)what you are slaving and 2)what you are slaving it to


    Whoa. You’ve got yourself into a bit of a mess there. 

    The best thing to do is read the early access guide to get your head around the various cockpit elements and all the acronyms.

    It’s waaaay simpler than you are making out. There are 3x SIGHTS (HMD/TADS/FCR) and many ACQ SOURCES, and the current SIGHT is always being slaved to the ACQ Source, assuming you press slave. The ACQ SOURCE can be selected in a number of ways, but it’s all in the manual. It’s maybe helpful to think of the ACQ Source as a location on the ground, either a literal position or it might be the position under the HMD/TADS line of sight cross. 

    In the Apache, a SENSOR is not a SIGHT. A Sensor is used as a FLIR image for flying/night navigation. Sensors are not used for pointing weapons. The PNVS is usually the pilots sensor, and the TADS can be used as the CPGs sensor. When the TADs is being used a sensor, it can’t be a Sight. (PNVS is never a sight.) So if you’re worried about weapons, ignore PNVS for now. 

    …. And try to purge SPI and SOI from your brain, you’re in the Army now, not the airforce. 

  4. 1 hour ago, Raptor9 said:

    It is correct. George doesn't change the symbology mode for himself, and any documentation that states it isn't common for both crewstations is wrong.

    The only time the crewmembers will have different symbology modes is when the CPG is sight selected TADS, in which case he will have Weapon symbology. But flight symbology mode is always common between crewstations.


    I humbly apologise then. Sorry BigN, my bad, a misconception I had. 

  5. This has been covered a lot now by everyone from Wags to every SME out there. (We’re so lucky to have so many with this module).

    It is confusing but you need to have a play and read all documentation carefully. 

    Basically forget SOI and SPI. They don’t apply here and are for jets. Don’t use that terminology. 

    Remember a SIGHT is how you aim weapons. Think of a rifle. Put the sight on the target, and that’s where your bullets and missiles will go. You define the position of the target with the SIGHTs line of sight cross, TADS or HMD. Simple ehh. Later the FCR will allow you to cursor select / cycle a target (NTS) symbol and point weapons that way, but it’s still a sight. 

    An ACQUISITION SOURCE is a way of helping you point your sight at the desired location. Think of someone guiding your rifle sights onto the desired point / target area on the range. It’s fundamentally there for acquiring the target. As you know this can commonly be a ground location, but others as well. You can slave (automatically point) your SIGHT at one one of these ACQ SOURCES. Sometimes though you only get cuing (little dots telling you which way to look) because the Apache can’t physically grab your head and move it, unlike moving the TADs or FCR centreline. 

    The ACQ SOURCES aren’t an ‘extra layer’ between you and the target. If you removed the ACQ SOURCE concept from the whole helicopter, you could still go out and shoot up targets all day long with your 3 SIGHTS (HMD/TADS/FCR), just like the Hind or a fancy Huey. BUT….it’ll be much harder to know where to look, and more time consuming and extra effort to search and point with those 3 SIGHTS. 

    Maybe the confusion is that a SIGHT can also be an ACQ source. (A sight can never be it’s own ACQ SOURCE though, or vice versa). But that’s just the flexibility of the system, you can get pointed to a SIGHTs LOS if it helps you acquire, but obviously situation dependant. An example would be CPG using GHS as ACQ Source and TADs as SIGHT, and slaving. Now the TADS will follow his head, and can be easily deslaved when you find a target. Later on with FCR, the pilot could set FCR as SIGHT and PHS as ACQ SOURCE, and use his head to point the centreline of the radar search area etc etc. Cool stuff.

    • Like 11
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  6. The TEDAC PNVS mode button is commanding P-HMD symbology correctly, but the underlying video is not the correct video source. It should show the pilots PNVS video (when Pilot in NVS NORM or FIXED), but instead it continues to display TADS video. This TADS video can even be slewed around, which is wrong.

    The Video display on a MPD when Pilot Sight selected works correctly and demonstrates how the TEDAC PNVS mode should work.

    See end half of short track below.

    Please also see this discussion:


    TADS and PNVS.trk

  7. Hi,

    The LIMITS message should be triggered when the TADS is slewed to the limits of it Azimuth and Elevation. The message should display in the sight status field to the left of the FOR box.

    In my track you can see it's missing. You can also see the LOS cross NOT flashing when at the Limits, actually it does in the high elevation limit, but not the other 3. This is also incorrect I believe, as it should flash when at limit.


    TADS and PNVS.trk

  8. So after re-testing this today, it is indeed modeled incorrectly at the moment. TADS video is the only video displayed, whatever the configuration. 

    It was working correctly in Wag's TADS video. So something got out of whack. I've got no time for a proper bug report today I'm afraid.

  9. George doesn’t currently store any target, even though in the voice over he says he does. 

    Maybe he will in the future. But for proper LO/HI LOAL shots, he’d need to be commanded to select the desired point as ACQ source. Which might not always be the last stored point. So it gets complicated, best way is to hop in front seat yourself or do multi crew. 

  10. 15 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

    Technically, the PNV button should show whatever is in the pilot's HDU. If it is day time and the pilot has his NVS set to OFF, the PNV button should show only the pilot's flight symbology on the TDU. If the pilot flips his NVS switch to NORM or FIXED, the TDU then should show the PNVS FLIR video with the pilot's flight symbology.

    If the pilot selects TADS as his NVS sensor, the TDU should show the TADS FLIR video with the pilot's flight symbology overlaid on it, even though PNV is selected.

    The PNV button just selects the pilot's HDU symbology/video for display on the CPG's TDU, just like how the PLT HMD selection on the VID page shows it.

    The only time this is not the case is if the CPG has his NVS switch set to NORM or FIXED. In this case, the CPG's HDU is repeated in the TDU, and the PNV button is ignored.


    Ok thanks, that’s as I expected. Have you tried this in game much?

    As CPG I had PNVS button selected (with pilot in NVS NORM) and I got TADS video overlaid with pilots HDU symbology. I could then slew TADs video background around with slew controller…..! I’m pretty sure this is incorrect. Thanks.

    (Also, I think the ‘Owner Cue’ message is an amusing interpretation. It should say PLT FORMAT / CPG FORMAT instead…..’owner cue’ is just the documentation’s way of labelling it.)

  11. Question for those in the know…

    When I select PNVS button on the TEDAC I’m expecting to see the pilots PNVS video overlaid with his HDU symbology…..

    Instead I get CPG TADs video overlaid with the pilots HDU symbology…

    Is this correct? I thought it should show the PNVS as the video source?


  12. 2 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

    To accomplish this, all you have to do is set the point you want George to look at as your ACQ source.  Either select it in the COORD page or select CAQ on the TSD and cursor select it. The ACQ LOS reticle "broken crosshairs" will be displayed in your HMD symbology. Simply place your LOS reticle over it, and command George to search that area with Up-Short.

    This is an excellent workaround, and I've been doing it since day 1.....but.....it does mean alot of ACQ source switching for the pilot. Once I've ordered George onto the T point, I might want to have TADS or SKR as acq to have SA on exactly which target he's going for. 

    Is there any change ED can shoehorn in a more direct method? Not sure with current interface, I dunno.

  13. 8 minutes ago, FalcoGer said:

    Of course the light knob should be on, how else are you gonna boresight?

    Why should the center tank be off? The startup checklist sets it on, so naturally a hot start should have that enabled.

    also 4. not 3.

    Dude, your attitude is not so great. ‘Bradmick ’ is one of the key SMEs working on the project and is likely one of the many prime drivers in making this module the best EA release since 2010. So maybe dial it back a bit. 

    Bug reports need a track, it’s just the SOP required now. 

  14. Just now, Agrrregat said:

    If you try with hot start RLWR dot is full, so system is ON. I can hear warnings about radar and when i turn it off i can't, even in middle when Betty is voicing.

    Master volume is up, it seams it doesn't have any connection to Betty reporting SAMs.

    I can't turn it on in Cold run 😞

    Some systems are a bit inconsistent with cold start. The little dot is off for the RADAR ALTIMETER as well, and the BLEEDS, and non interactive, but actually working. Hot start - the switch behaves as expected. So a little bugged, but forgivable since the module is still awesome. 

  15. 16 minutes ago, VDV said:

    It's a great module,yes but I have also a lot of hard times getting airborne that beast...Is there a autopilot or something??

    No, but there is a manual and a shed load of tutorials. 

    • Like 2
  16. Why the obsession with removing the hanger? It looks cool, and adds character. Leave it be. 

    There are other animation items that should get much higher priority. 

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  17. Technically taking multiple shots with 8s intervals is called RAPID fire. All missiles on the same laser code. 

    Using 2 or more laser codes alternating between PRI and ALT codes is known as RIPPLE fire. You can reduce the interval to 1.5s on this case. And there’s a specific launch mode for this. (Not at EA though.).

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