Bug11

I will buy. The ONLY issue I had was with not knowing what was being installed on my system. I would prefer a copy protection scheme that didn't interfere with virtual cd emulation but I would probably just deal with it. ED have said it was an oversight and that is good enough for me. Hopefully a little more forethought will be done in future - focused on the consumer side of things rather than the developers.

hehe, that's half the fun of testing.

does this mean it'll make it into 1.1?

well that should also shut up those who were attacking people who thought this was an issue :) i wonder how many minutes of my week i wasted on this this week.

Re: 1.1 Copy protection Thank you very much for updating us on this issue :)

Registry entries of games and programs that we agreed to install. Not copy protection registry entries from a demo. Installation of anything else is deceptive at the very least. Or Spyware, or a trojan, or a virus. or a piece of software that is a security risk to your computer.

If this is true ED have just lost not only my purchase but my respect, and any future purchases. To bundle a questionable application without the user's express permission is unacceptable. It shows lack of respect and disregard on their part.

I completely agree.

do you know what the build difference is between the exe and data in the demo and in the full version? It's several months older than the demo. I'll take it that you mean the exe and data in the demo is several months older than the retail ;) It's better to shut up than to having nothing nice to say about that - so i'll shut up :D How much is several? and what did you base that conclusion on. enquiring minds wish to know :)

Without right way or track for reproduction that issue, we can't fix it. If that depend of machines that may be a configuration problem with memory or not proper memory management or driver problems, anything... I experienced the input lag and "sticky keys" with the 1.1 demo, while in 1.1 preview version I did not have this problem. Input lag is experienced with keyboard, joystick, TrackIR. do you know what the build difference is between the exe and data in the demo and in the full version?

any official word on them being fixed?

I have to say I watched this whole debate with some frustration. It's not bad against a beaming target, but rather against a maneuvering target. But that's the whole point - if the missile wasn't flying a lead pursuit, then the target wouldn't have to maneuver to defeat it. It was as if nobody read Robert Shaw's "Fighter Tactics and Maneuvering", where this optimal intercept trajectory is described quite well. I can imagine a lot of improvements for the missile modelling, but this isn't one of them, and it quite surprised me that so many people could be agreeing to make the missile trajectories worse! (at least, according to Shaw..?) -SK The problem is that the missile seems to be maintaining a lead pursuit course even if it means that it does not have enough energy to complete an intercept. If it switches to lead collision during the end phase (the most efficient trajectory - see page 36 - paragraph 4 of shaw) it will improve the missile's performance. I haven't tested this in 1.1 (I don't like to modify software...).

In 1.02 I know the slammers fly a lead pursuit course their whole flight path until they get within their detonation range... BAD vs a beaming target. It's a known issue and I have seen discussion on it in various forums. The missile should be following a collision path when within at least a couple of miles. I hope the demo didn't include a fix for this issue, and that a fix does exist in the addon.

Graphics engine is rendering effects you cannot see and it is killing framerates. Flew the su-25 out over the ocean and flying straight and level obtained 32fps. Dropped 6 flares and framerate dropped to 10fps. Dropped 10 flares and framerate dropped to 2fps. Lights are on 'none' and effects are on 'low'. Tried the same with effects on none and no framerate drop.

I didn't get the point of the poll at first.. i couldn't see why anyone on earth would choose to buy a patch without a new helicopter than one that didn't have one :) So i'll assume the original poster was talking about dev effort focus. I would prefer that the functionality that is present is improved upon. Improve the AI so that it more intelligent than artificial, streamline the mission editor so that those with a creative streak are going to be able to create what this community needs - missions - without pulling their hair out. Improve the interface, add some multiplayer functionality and tweak what there is (eg, ditch the recover feature and replace it with spawning at airbases ala il2). The Falcon community effort went the road of adding new aircraft and features without focusing on those things that weren't working right first and for many those issues are the killers. For LOMAC to have a long life it has to be rock solid in what it has rather than adding additional things while leaving other stuff unpolished or not working right. I'll be buying the FC addon not because i am interested in the Su-25T at all, but because there's lots of bug fixes that will improve what is already there.

How much of the F4 development effort was spent on the campaign engine? Do you know? How much did F4 cost to develop? Do you know? How rude and unpleasant you are.

This pretty much sums it up to me. That falcon4 can do it shows that using the right methodology it is possible. The changes needed on the AI control side of things isn't too difficult - using the same bubble method as falcon - two layers of AI - call them tactical and strategic. Even without creation of a dynamic campaign implementing such a system of AI control would very much improve the performance of the sim. I think the F4UT site or maybe some falcon forums have a detailed explanation of bubbles and how they work. Therefore the concept is already made, a practical implementation has been demonstrated. I think a lot more effort would be required to make a working dynamic campaign engine as you are essentially making an old fashioned wargame.

12MB for a skin? how about peer to peer downloading rather than through the server? with client side switches to allow you to toggle downloading on and off and uploading on and off? and default skins used until you've gotten the whole skin? all at a max rate specified by the user. no hit on the server host, and everyone has a choice, and all bandwidth usage is controlled. being able to use customized skins is a desirable thing. instead of looking for reasons not to have it, how about being positive and thinking of ways to overcome the obstacles so it's possible. edit - this comment isn't aimed at you tharos - just a general comment on being positive.

understood - but wouldn't it be nice to be able to take a look risk free? i'm sure it would be in the best interests of ED to get people to do so. electronics boutique has been happy to take returns within 7 days if you aren't satisfied here in Canada. i suppose if you made a habit of it they may get a little annoyed :) i've taken the liberty of contacting my federal department of consumer affairs to clarify a document i found on their website that states an online vendor must provide you with a refund under certain circumstances - one of which is whether the product is as represented and whether the consumer has had the opportunity to be adequately informed of the product. I won't hold my breath for a reply any time soon though. I wouldn't be suprised if the law is lagging so far behind that the answer is grey. I suppose i'll wait until there's a few reviews and enough time has passed to find out if anyone is having major problems with it before purchasing. If only i can resist the temptation to buy it before then :D

not paranoia at all :) basic consumer rights. I have faith that ED are going to release something good, BUT.. it's not a fool's faith. I can see in this thread others who share the same concern. If there will be a way to get a refund then there's nothing to lose. Not to mention the dubious legality of selling something without possiblity of refund.

Which is why I want further information, don't try to be clever. If it isn't functional on a system where a claim has been made it is, the developers should respect that a refund is necessary. Obviously you can't send back your download. A refund is means reimbursement, not an exchange. Think you're misunderstand what I'm saying. Game developers, EA games/Valve/ED/ect ect do not give refunds on games....period.You may return a defective product for the same product but no refunds on an open product in which this case a dload is opened goods. Weather or not it runs on your rig is not part of the eula. Game Devs cant controll what kind of crap you put on your pc or if you built your pc who is to say its the game and not your hardware at fault? If you have ever returned any game and got your money back then I'm sure the Best Buy or Walmart or where ever you got the game ended up biting the $30.00-$50.00. Or, the employee of named store got it taken out of his next paycheck for giving your money back. This is just how the gamming business works. Been this way ever since I can remember. If we could all take back games weather they work or not. Developers would make no money with todays technology of CD/DVD burners. irrelevant. changing the method of sale does not entitle any party to circumvent law. if the developer is selling the product, they also become the retailer, and will be covered by any applicable laws. is all of this really relevant? i mean... i´m all for consumer rights... but sometimes it seems that there is a death wish in this community... when there are no flight sim´s for us to play with... be happy because you still have your consumer rights intact... were we talking about a FPS... i would understand all of this... but we are not... we are talking about one of last flight sim developers... let´s get serious... if you don´t want to get FC, don´t. if you want to... then by all means get it... there will always be flightsims to play with, regardless of hyperbole. consumer rights are not something to be waived to protect a developer.

OK. Choices are: a) buy it and hope it works, if not you wasted your money. b) not buy it. given the condition lomac was released in, and is still in, doesn't it seem that if given no opportunity to obtain a refund, many people aren't going to risk purchasing in the first place and are going to go and do 'illegal' things first - with whatever percentage of those people who may have bought it and kept it not bothering since they already have it? just human nature.

Which is why I want further information, don't try to be clever. If it isn't functional on a system where a claim has been made it is, the developers should respect that a refund is necessary. Obviously you can't send back your download. A refund is means reimbursement, not an exchange. Think you're misunderstand what I'm saying. Game developers, EA games/Valve/ED/ect ect do not give refunds on games....period.You may return a defective product for the same product but no refunds on an open product in which this case a dload is opened goods. Weather or not it runs on your rig is not part of the eula. Game Devs cant controll what kind of crap you put on your pc or if you built your pc who is to say its the game and not your hardware at fault? If you have ever returned any game and got your money back then I'm sure the Best Buy or Walmart or where ever you got the game ended up biting the $30.00-$50.00. Or, the employee of named store got it taken out of his next paycheck for giving your money back. This is just how the gamming business works. Been this way ever since I can remember. If we could all take back games weather they work or not. Developers would make no money with todays technology of CD/DVD burners. irrelevant. changing the method of sale does not entitle any party to circumvent law. if the developer is selling the product, they also become the retailer, and will be covered by any applicable laws.

:roll: How will you send back your download? What game exactly do you get a refund on if it doesnt work on your computer? Sigh..... :cry: Your money. HOW to do it is not the consumer's responsibility.

That's a good point. If i buy it, and am not happy with it, can i get a refund? If the answer is in the thread already i apologize, just posting as i read my way through.