Aapje

That is not exactly true. AM5 and the 7800X3D have been out long enough to no longer have early adopter teething issues, but it is still about as futureproof as you can get.

One of the issues is that Gen 5 only refers to the theoretical speed of the interface that the drive uses to communicate, but the Gen 5 drives being sold tend to not actually hit those speeds (in part because the drive controllers are not good enough yet). So the actual speed difference is not as impressive as you might think. But another issue is that gen 3/4/5 drives are all much faster than HDDs and thus are way less of a bottleneck than HDDs were, but they also are far too slow compared to RAM, for the game to be able to get something from disk fast enough to not have to worry about it. So games still use techniques like preloading things to RAM long before the game actually needs it. So a drive that is a little slower tends to most often result in a bit longer loading times, which is not really that important compared to having good frame rates, which are rarely impacted by drive speeds, once the speed is at a decent level. I've never seen anyone show an actual benchmark where FPS improved by moving to a gen 4 or 5 drive. Frankly, there are some people on this forum who give advice based on theoretical reasoning of how they think things work, but actual reality is very complicated and is almost impossible to reason through, which is why benchmarks are so important. Einstein recognized the human inability to actually reason in a reliable way, when he said: “In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.”

What TM really needs soon is an improved entry-level stick, since the new Winwing Ursa Minor editions are absolutely spanking the T.16000M. I think that it would be pretty easy for Winwing to come out with a stripped down throttle that costs no more than the standard price for the TWCS. At that point, they can offer a HOTAS set with a combo discount that will absolutely spank TM in the low budget category. I would be surprised if Winwing is not working on that right now. Right now there is no evidence that a low budget FFB option is in the works and it may not be needed for a few years when the FFB infrastructure has been laid out and more casual simmers really want FFB. The FFB2 cost $109 in 1998, which is about $212 in 2024 dollars. I can see them sell a modern, basic FFB entry level stick (no separate stick and base) for something similar. For example, instead of the 57BLF03 that the Rhino uses, they can use the 57BLF01 that is a third as strong. You can get those for $30 on ebay from China, so getting them in large volume directly from the factory should cost no more than half that, so $30 for a set. Then you take the Ursa Minor that they can sell for $110 and add the $30 to it. You are only at $140. So you have a large gap of $72 before you get to that $212 price point. That leaves a lot of room for some extra electronics, a basic power supply, some extra plastic for the housing, extra shipping costs and extra profit margin. And I would personally suggest they sell it for $249 or so, so that would leave another $37. Of course, as I said before, investing in this only makes sense once the higher-priced FFB offerings have been proven to sell well and it is clear that a low-budget FFB stick would sell in large numbers.

I strongly suggest you take a look at the VPForce/Rhino manual, where there is an extensive list of the things that the software (can) simulate for DCS and other sims. Some of these are effects that you may not be interested in, but there are also more basic force that are not implemented in some/all of the sims. And the software also has the ability to mimic some FFB forces for modules that do not support FFB. Of course, the big sim, MSFS, which is crucial to make FFB hardware sell in sufficient volume, does not currently support FFB natively, although I've been told that it is on the roadmap for MSFS 2024. Indeed. It opens up a whole dimension of 'feeling' the plane, which makes planes much less similar to each other, and much improves important factors to airplane control like preserving energy (you feel when you are inducing drag) and preventing a stall (you feel the buffeting). On the civilian side of things, it also allows replicating the safety systems build in certain airliners, which are fly by wire, but the actual airplane uses FFB to sent information to the pilot.

The person wanted to futureproof somewhat, which your suggestion for a dead-end platform and old RAM is not going to achieve. His existing DDR4 is almost certainly not up to snuff when it is 9600k-era RAM, so he would need to buy new RAM anyway, and then it is better to go for DDR5 at this time, IMO.

Sorry, but this is just nonsense. Simming games pretty much universally love the X3D-cache and DCS definitely does. With the 14700k you also have to deal with the CPU degradation issues and the fixes for this making the CPU slower. With the 14700k, you have no options for real CPU upgrades in the future and you also have more heat output.

Let me take a stab at guessing/predicting the future. The actual release of the Moza/WW FFB bases will take longer than we hope, as the software seems to effectively be non-existent at this point. The expo reports are that the one base that people could actually use had no more than damping/resistance. No actual FFB effects. And it was demonstrated with War Thunder, which is a weird choice for an expo where the more hardcore flight simmers attend, that suggests that even the most rudimentary software support didn't yet exist for MSFS, DCS, etc. So neither seem that close to a releasable state, let alone catching up to where the Rhino is. So once these bases are released, I predict a lot of disappointment, people saying that they are happy that they didn't cancel their Rhino reservation, etc. Actually catching up to the Rhino software can easily take a year or so. Then there is still the issue that some DCS modules don't support FFB well, all of MSFS doesn't support it natively, etc. So it will probably take another year for these products to support FFB more extensively. Of course the ultra-enthusiasts either already have the Rhino or would be willing to buy something that works sometimes and still requires a lot of tinkering, but for it to really take off in the mass market, can easily take a bunch of years. For Moza this is a chance to enter the market with something special, and for Winwing this is the chance to change their reputation as just copying Virpil/VKB/etc. But for both of them it is a gamble. It seems too early to gamble on the lower-end, but If I was these companies, I would already do R&D on a cheaper version, but only release it once the higher-end FFB market proves to be solid enough.

With their sales channel and brand name, TM don't have to be ahead. Just not too far behind. And I expect these new FFB bases to remain a niche, with plenty of sales in the non-FFB bases. In general, most of the sales tend to be for the cheaper stuff. The bigger deficiency than not having a FFB base is that Trustmaster still has very crappy low-end options, much inferior to the Wingwing Ursa Minor. Wingwing is clearly aiming at the people who currently buy the T.16000M with their $84 Ursa Minor Airline edition that they just announced. If Winwing or another competitor comes out with a half-decent $120 throttle and $120 rudder pedals, and releases an XBox-version, then the TM-line has been made fully obsolete. Note that I also see a large gap for a lower budget FFB option. Basically an upgraded MS FFB2. The first company to fill that gap could make a lot of money.

The prices they ask for their new panels are great. A golden age for cockpit builders may be coming as well.

Trustmaster's big strength is their sales channel and brand name. They still have a great shot at keeping a strong position in the market place, but they risk a reputation reversal where they become known as the bad brand.

No figure has been released. There are rumors that Moza and Winwing worked together and it is the same base under the covers, but these are just rumors with no hard evidence.

No one can predict the future, but going for the 7800X3D on AM5 is almost certainly the most futureproof choice, of the current offerings*. Going for a B650E or X670 motherboard will cost a bit more, but means that you get PCIe 5, which means that you are more futureproof with regard to future video cards. Then again, we've seen that you tend to get almost no performance loss for being one generation behind and only a slight loss for being two PCIe generations behind, with your motherboard compared to the video card. So you can also just save a bit of money and get B650 without the E. * The next interesting chip is likely to be the 9800X3D with should come in September at the earliest, but possibly months later. But AMD tends to set the initial price too high, so by the time it is actually interesting to buy, it will be a little while after the release

Yes, very exciting times. Of course, it will probably take at least a year for these products to have proper software and such.

This has already been posted/discussed here:

Trustmaster made a mess of their sim racing line-up, coasting on their belt-drive line-up, only to get mostly made obsolete by cheap direct drive systems. They finally did release a direct drive offering, but it is fairly mediocre. So I don't know whether they have it in them.

I don't think that VPForce and FFBeast sent out any review units, but a company like Moza is definitely going to do that. So we should see a bunch of videos. Don't know how soon, but since BluGames apparently got a review unit, others probably got theirs too. Of course, a proper review requires more than having it for an hour.

@Captain Chuck For that price difference, I would get the regular 4070.

The Vive is a big step back. I'd say a Quest 3 if you want an upgrade and don't plan to upgrade your system anytime soon. Or a 2nd hand Pico 4 or Reverb G2, with the last one being rather risky.

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There is no official info except for a teaser on Twitter. These pictures all leaked and I haven't seen a price leak yet. We may get the official announcement later today, as I think that today they'll have the very long set of keynotes at FlightSimExpo, where companies make their announcements. PS. Thanks to the mod for merging the topics.

I would also advise to go to 64 straight away. RAM is quite affordable at the moment, so I wouldn't skimp right now. That similar price only exists on paper. In the stores there is a price difference. Chuck should look at the price difference in Russia. If the gap isn't too big, I would go for the Super, which is a decent bit faster. It's a lot more expensive though. I would suggest sticking with the 4070 (super) given the budget constraints.

The Rhino is specced at 9 Nm as well, versus 35 for the FFBeast. If it is equal to the Rhino, for around $500, that would be great. And then Winwing can make a direct copy for $400

I'm very excited. I tried to encourage the Rhino & FFBeast guys* into starting a company, because I think that the prices can be brought down quite a bit by starting a proper production line. Having a 'real' company making the products also means that we can put pressure on module makers to properly support FFB, and for sims like MSFS to officially start to support it. And in my native language, there is a saying: if one sheep has crossed the dam, more will follow. In other words, it often takes one company/person to take the leap, to make others follow. In sim racing, there is a healthy competition for FFB offerings. It would be great to get the same for flight simming. * They may lose a lot of business, although they might not mind, if their ambition is not to make a career out of making FFB joysticks.

@Dangerzone It's a bit more complicated than that, because companies are also fighting for customer and media attention. If a company underpromises, they will get less exposure and fewer customers will give them a chance. Overdelivering results in happy customers, but it also tends to result in fewer customers. Unfortunately, companies that overpromise tend to do better when it comes to sales. So realistically, asking for a company to overdeliver often means that you ask for a company to lose out and disappear. I think that the issue is more that Pimax has been overpromising too much and they need to tone it down quite a bit.