karasawa
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Everything posted by karasawa
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Well, I am not an experienced player. I tried to go to a PVP server but I cannot win a single dogfight no matter what jet I am driving. All I can do is test theoretical turn rate. Theoretically, A outrates B when A has a higher peak turn rate than B, right? So here is what I have tried (all in 50% fuel and clean configuration, no pylons) At 10000 feet: Mig-29 and JF17 sustain at 15.5deg/sec, Hornet sustains at 16deg/sec, Viper sustains at 16.5deg/sec At 15000 feet: Mig-29 and JF17 sustains at 13.2deg/sec, Viper sustains at 14 deg/sec
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I see a pattern here. step 1) F-16 outrates jet A. step 2) Jet A reverses the turn to reset the fight. This thread aims to accomplish step 1. Step 2 is out of the scope of this thread. Maybe someone will open another thread about step 2 in the future. Technically, step 2 won't kick in as long as F-16 driver has good gunnery.
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This is why I suggest fighting above 10K to gain advantage over other jets
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Trick: DO NOT GO BELOW 10000 feet, and keep doing 2C fight. You can even outrate some OP mod aircraft like the Rafale. You don't even need to worry about those draggy wing pylons (better to remove them nevertheless). 'The reason of flying above 10000 feet is that you don't get blackout in those high speed turns (450 knots+). F-16 is the only jet in DCS that is able to sustain 14deg/sec at 15000feet, and 16.5deg/sec at 10000feet. Unlike turning on the deck, at higher altitudes you can try faster corner speed (450-500 knots)
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1. We are talking about sustained rate of turn. It's known to anyone that F-16's ITR is not the best. 2. Defeating F-16 with archer and HMD does not mean you can out-maneuver F-16. There are a lot of simulated gun fights where HMD does not work, for instance, check this: It is already shown in previous posts, at least twice.
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The drag polar of F-16 and Mig-29 are published. It is very easy to calculate its sustained G's as various speeds. We can also calculate the energy bleed rate at various load factors. Not hard to find out which one retains energy better.
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In real life F-16 outrates Mig29 easily: F-16 vs Mig-29 energy maneuverability from test report https://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=53852&sid=d512889651520c8eccc5e373de078a7f Also from Lt Fred Clifton: "If the F-16 pilot has the Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System and AIM-9X, the advantage is still with the Viper pilot as the off-boresight capability of the AIM-9X is significantly higher than the AA-11. If it comes down to a gun fight, I still give the advantage to the F-16. The F-16 sustains a high-g turn better than the MiG-29, has better outside visibility, is more responsive and easier to fly, rolls significantly faster and will out accelerate the MiG-29 like the Fulcrum was glued to the floor. The Fulcrum is a very sloppy-flying airplane. I'm not saying the Fulcrum is a push over; the Viper pilot needs to bring his A-game. The Fulcrum pilot better prosecute the merge pretty fast because he doesn't have the fuel to hang around very long. While flying the F-16, I found the Su-27 to be a much more lethal BVR airplane with the exended-range AA-10C. The Flanker also has a very robust infrared search-and-track system that can also cause issues. You still have an advantage with the AMRAAM. You just have to be more cautious. In the visual fight, the Flanker is still impressive for an aircraft of its size. If the Su-27 is fairly heavyweight then it's a wallowing pig. If it has burned off some fuel, its nose-pointing ability a high angles of attack is impressive. So is its energy bleed off. If you can get him to give up some energy, I found it very beatable with the F-16. On the other hand, the Flanker is a lot like the F-15 - it's a maintenance nightmare."
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I guess you are hampered by wing pylons?
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F16 already outrates Mig29 after patch 2.7.2. Just noticed that.
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After the latest update the Viper can now outrate the Fulcrum.
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Instead of doing 2C fight on the deck, I refrained my temptation of going lower. I fight the 2C fight above 3000 m (10000 feet). The 2C fight usually starts at 6000 m (20000 feet) and the downward spiral goes lower and lower, but I tried to keep the fight above 3000 m. The reason is that I won't go blackout that easily at higher altitude, which allows me to fully exploit its maneuverability at higher speed. 3000 m is already very low and in fact most fights end above 4000 m. Here is my test result and I will post a replay file later. Half fuel, clean, remove all wing pylons manually (wing pylons are included even in the default "clean" configuration. I removed them manually), H = 3000 m. F-16C's peak STR is 16.4deg/sec, around Mach 0.9 Mig-29's peak STR is 15.5deg/sec, at Mach 0.84 (with 2 wing pylons, since it does not have tip pylons) JF-17's peak STR is 15.3deg/sec, at Mach 0.6 and 0.8 (two peaks) F/A-18's peak STR is 16deg/sec, around Mach 0.75 This works well against AI at least. Once the merge starts, keep an eye on the direction of turning. If the AI chooses 1C fight, switch your direction of turning. Also works at 4500 m (15000 feet).
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waiting for more updates from ED.
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It seems you don't know that thrust drops over altitude?
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At 10000 feet try mach 0.85, it should be your max rate speed (IAS 550+ I believe?). At 15000 feet try mach 0.85-0.9.
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That is still lower than the HAF manual. F-16 at mil should supercruise at mach 1.04
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That is because 50% fuel in Mig-29 supports much less airborne time than 50% fuel in viper. If you unify the afterburner duration (say, 50% fuel in Mig-29 while 40% fuel in viper), the viper outrates the Mig-29 from 600km/h and up.
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A 50% fuel viper with 6 amraams can sustain more than 14deg/sec at 10000 feet (around mach 0.85), faster than the hornet with the same load. When clean (remove pylons manually) the viper can sustain over 16.5deg/sec at the same altitude. Faster than anything that flies.
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https://courses.lumenlearning.com/physics/chapter/17-2-speed-of-sound-frequency-and-wavelength/ Based on the formula here the speed of sound at sea level, 15 deg C should be 331 * sqrt((273+15)/273) = 339m/s, still smaller than the value in DCS.
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Obviously he has no idea about the turn rate. He thinks the turn rate from manual has error can cannot be trusted. I remember during my primary school era the math teacher always cited the speed of sound as 333m/s.
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Stay above 10000 ft and you can out turn a hornet easily in a 2 circle fight.
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Then please explain this: Let's pick a point from the HAF manual: sea level , 0.7 Mach , 21.7deg/sec, 9G. Question：what is the speed of sound? true air speed = 9*9.8/(21.7/57.3) = 233m/s speed of sound = 233 / 0.7 = 333m/s
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Good question. Lift and drag depend on true air speed and force coefficients (witch depends on Mach number), so lift and drag depend on both true air speed and Mach number. However, Lift and drag depend on true air speed by a power of 2. Force coefficients do not vary that much (sometimes almost constant) when Mach number changes. 1) Air speed remains constant but Mach number changes slightly: lift and drag changes slightly. 2) Air speed changes slightly but Mach number remains constant: lift and drag changes by power of 2. So I would rather keep airspeed constant instead of Mach number, which yields much smaller error.
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My question is that I have proven the speed of sound in HAF manual is 333 m /s and why don't you believe it? You haven't learnt physics or centripetal acceleration? The data in HAF manual is based on flight test, and is converted to standard atmosphere, but it does't mention its the standard atmosphere of which year. There are slight changes over time. 345m / s is closer to present day atmosphere.
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That's easy. You can check tacview for true air speed and mach number, and calculate the quotient.
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Let's pick a point from the HAF manual: sea level , 0.7 Mach , 21.7deg/sec, 9G. Question：what is the speed of sound? true air speed = 9*9.8/(21.7/57.3) = 233m/s speed of sound = 233 / 0.7 = 333m/s what is your fuel load?
