Low Blow

PM sent.

The hornet does not outrate the viper (no pylons) in 2 circle and I have the tacview files to prove it.

Hi there. I may be able to help. PM sent.

Would this be possible to incorporate into the game?

Just make friends with someone who flies the hornet.

Trying to find the culprit at the moment. Had disabled a number of mods through OvGME but the HMD not displaying persisted. It was only once I did the repair that the HMD displayed again. No texture mods were installed that I'm aware of.

log attached pre-repair. Repair has fixed the issue. It found a number of files which seem to have affected the HMD. Thanks for suggesting that. dcs.rar

Have both eyes selected in special options, using a Rift S. All mods disabled. HMD has stopped displaying for me and fellow wing member (both of us have rift S). No idea how to fix this.

*selected* ?? LOL

So the issue seems to be with pylons on then, would you agree?

most of us aren't on here posting for the sake of posting. Why aren't there mods on here doing something about your useless posts? I know very well what EA is. Maybe you need to go back and read what I've posted a little more carefully.

I am a customer, not a beta tester. They have a tester team for a reason but I'm not sure what they have been doing regarding the FM given how this module performs in BFM compared to its peers. I'm not here to piss people off. I'm here to post my genuine concerns with this module and ask for a fix as soon as possible or at least get some communication from ED that it's on their radar. I'm not really sure what your posts are accomplishing though (apart from raising your post count and being argumentative for the sake of it).

Fly it against someone in a hornet who knows what they are doing and you will win zero out of six then you will come on here and start posting for FM fixes...I'd be happy to fly a hornet against you to make the point. PM me.

That would be fine for the most part but for the fact that we have been reporting the viper's low sustained turn rate since release and received barely any (read exceptionally vague) feedback from ED regarding any intention on their behalf to remedy this. The other problem that I have with your statement, "you find bugs and report them", is that we are customers who have paid nearly full whack for a retail product. If you wish to insist that we are now effectively part of the ED testers team (which I can guarantee you we are not - hence why I still enjoy mostly free speech on here) then at the very least when we report a problem we should receive timely acknowledgment that it is or is not on the list of things to fix, especially for a problem as significant as having a lower sustained turn rate than a hornet. The issue is not with finding bugs in an EA product. The issue is with the lack of communication on the part of ED. Instead of addressing our concerns re low sustained turn rate and the way the module flies, which is what a lot of us are concerned about, instead we get stuff that doesn't really matter like cosmetics and wing flex. I couldn't give a toss about whether my wings flex or not at this point in time. But I do care if I lose a two circle fight to a hornet because the FM is wrong. I give a toss when we get vague answers from ED regarding their plans for this FM while they are off busying themselves with "nice-to-haves" like wing flex instead of fixing "must-haves" like correct STR. Sure, give us wing flex once the FM is sorted. But right now it just seems like mismanaged priorities and we STILL have no word that ED specifically believe the low STR to be something that, in their opinion, requires a fix. I wouldn't be posting these messages at the rate I am if I had that confirmation. The viper is around 2 deg per sec down on the hornet in STR. Fix it please.

Good work. Can see that what we have all been saying is correct. The hornet has roughly a 2 deg per sec sustained turn rate advantage above 350 KIAS compared to viper. This plainly should not be the case. Did your viper have pylons on during testing? From what I've experienced in testing with buddies removing the pylons makes a significant difference.

Then perhaps they should rename it to Digital Combat Game...it would save them a lot of work :thumbup:

What he said made zero sense.... Let me clarify this once more. DCS is a GAME. It has nothing to do with real life. However, within that game it is the community's reasonable expectation that a viper should have a higher sustained turn rate than a hornet. In the GAME it does not. There is no need for any of us to start pulling out our CVs and rolling off our list of quals here in order to prove a point. Just take me up on my bet instead. I still need the christmas money.

Pamenchan, if the viper is being outrated in a sustained two circle fight by a hornet (which it is) then it is underperforming. I have the tacview files to prove it. So please don't come on here and complicate matters by stating that to you it doesn't seem to be underperforming when it clearly is. If you don't believe me then I'd be happy to bet you $100 USD that you will not win a 2C fight against me if you take a viper and I take a hornet (20K feet, 400 KIAS, 75% fuel, clean with pylons, guns, no paddle-pulling in the hornet). Until ED fix the viper FM I'll take that bet 24/7. The extra cash will come in handy for some christmas shopping I have to do this week.

As has been said multiple times already on these forums, all this theory crafting about real life vs DCS is irrelevant. The real point is that within the game, in its current state, the viper is underperforming in terms of sustained turn rate. You can look at as many youtube videos of real vipers as you like. It doesn't take away from the fact that right now within DCS the hornet absolutely shreds the viper in a two circle fight.

Hello Top Jockey, I think that flying against AI isn't the best way to ascertain what any of these airframes are really like. Your best bet is to find someone who knows what they are doing when it comes to BFM then running through what you'd like to see in regards to a specific regime. But a couple of quick observations I've made from doing exactly that against a number of my friends who are solid in BFM is that right now the JF-17 is the BFM king of the hill (we don't pull the paddle in the hornet unless we are about to CFIT, so bear that in mind). I can't speak to the current performance of the fulcrum in DCS but if you'd like to fly it against me I'd be happy to help you in that regard. Best, LB.

There is a good viper in the game. It's called the JF-17. But seriously, look at the positives here....now while you are looking back over your shoulder in your viper waiting for that bandit to fill your cockpit with hair and eyeballs at least you'll be able to see your wingtip flexing.

Cheers Rubberduck. From where I sit all it would take is a statement from ED that acknowledges that the sustained turn rate of the viper in its current state is low and that they intend to fix it. Broad sweeping statements that the FM is WIP don't really fill me with confidence in that regard but if that's what you've been told by bignewy then I guess that's more concrete than what I've got atm, so thanks for that.

Depends where you look and who you talk to. Where I've looked and who I've spoken to indicate that ED have no intention of making changes to the sustained turn rate of the viper any time soon. I'd be happy to be proven wrong on this. No matter what you look at, this thread exists (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=255421) and ED are yet to acknowledge that the viper's low sustained turn rate when compared with its in-game peers is an issue they intend to address. Hence my concern.

Hi Nineline, With respect, the vast majority of us know what we are signing up for with EA. The big issue for me at least is that the feedback from ED regarding the flight model is that it is accurate and won't be receiving any major improvements to its sustained turn rate performance. As I'm sure you're aware, in its current state, the F-16 is bottom of the pile in terms of its sustained turn performance when compared with the hornet, tomcat and JF-17. Nevermind winning in the 2 circle, it is straight up floundering. I'm fairly certain that most of the feedback from the community is that some tweaks need to be made to the G-induced drag model (i.e. reduce G-induced drag). It just isn't moving the nose like it should compared to the other jets we have in DCS. Nevermind reality. This isn't about what the real jet can do. The main reason I was looking forward to the Viper was for its 2 circle (sustained rate) performance and right now it just isn't there. It simply is not enjoyable to BFM in the viper because it can't do what it is supposed to do (win the rate war). It's not about EA. We get what EA means. It's about how this aeroplane's FM simply isn't delivering on what the community expects from it. Yes, some people are probably going to say that what the community expects is irrelevant and the SME's word is the final word. But a viper that repeatedly gets beaten by all of its relevant competition in the game in the 2 circle fight just isn't credible. Again, said with the utmost respect. LB.

Gear down and gear up