jackmckay

I disagree at this that "most have their undercarriage ripped off or end up buried to their axles" - either the one "delicate" type with small tyre diameter/footprint, really heavy ones and/or in wet/rainy/muddy conditions. We have videos of Mig15, Mig21, F5 and C-130 Hercules here in thread operating from dirt. I give you this champion too: Its Soviet philosophy guys! Get it! Airstrips are everywhere! This tread here proofs how western thinking is pretty "boxed". Truth is elsewhere. Have fun reading this tread and don't get anything wrong. I'm here to stress on authentic and immerse flaws of this simulator so blame me for that. https://frontlinevideos.com/blogs/videos/russias-a-10s-dont-have-a-gau-8-but-can-do-something-a-10s-cant Have fun. :pilotfly:

Ok man, u got your standpoint. On the other way that what you say neglects Soviet design philosophy in essence and limits field operations, logistics and many cool things that could be utilized on MP dynamic servers like BF and others. As you said "they're more likely to just crash land" but only if descent rate is high enough otherwise they live. They would crash land on the supertough, superflat runway if descent rate is too high anyway.

I asked for soviet build airfield taxiway surroundings to have hard enough soil so that soviet airplanes designed for rough terrain can't stuck, for a start. Unless rainy wet.

${1} Didnt blow or stuck. Can't stop watching those big birds!

Looks like Su27 is not the issue here. Somehow that heavy plane manages to do impossible despite high load on tyre footprint. Ironically, the one designed to operate from unprepared runways obviously can't utilize design feature. :huh: Man, my Mig21 blew up instantly ... speed was 250km/h, elevator roll up, reduced weight by 95% by wing lift generated and almost in the air.. aaand... hits what? Landmine on the edge of taxiway?? BTW: Didn't know that there are different soil softness applied. That means that IS possible to correct this terrain design issue. PS: It would be cool if all flyable modules would be tested it that conditions.

Ladies and jets, here comes the champion of the day: http://sendvid.com/fgr54jvy :joystick:

Aaah guys thank you for the FLOWERS, my hart is soft as soil around hangars now.. :lol:

The one at my recent video posted few pages before but it also can be repeated at many, many other similar places. Anyway there's lot of material here to discuss this topic as many have exposed their satisfaction with current ground modelling in DCS and very very few elaborated soil physics aspect and disagree that current situation is real. I'm sure this thread has reached ED and that they will decide what and when to make certain changes or not. :thumbup:

Fefifo/salama I really respect your stands as soil physics and hydrology experts.

CFD is off the topic actually. http://sendvid.com/vmal8xep It's stuck on grass. Mig15 with 50% fuel on board. Guduata shelter nr. 25.

Jackmckay says: why do heavy load CFDs when 99.99% of calculations would be repetitive? Ballistics as CFD can be tabular as already is and way super faster than using expensive HPC farm to invent hot water. Off thread anyway, we are talking about wheel-soil physics. What vehicles in DCS don't have wheels? Maybe many think I had this in mind ( ) ? :D

The way I see this thread is: ${1} ( ) :lol:

(Fri13) +1 At least someone reasonable here. Rest that repeat "Stay on damn taxiway!" either: -can't read and visualize the problem here , -can't play posted videos (picture says thousand words, motion picture multiplied by frame rate), -ignorant fools that don't get the physics of soil-wheel contact in essence, -being payed trolls, -sadistic fools that like to represent them as majority without any proof while being trolls for free, -all of this combined. History proved that human stupidity is repeatedly and surprisingly resistant to common sense and usually autlouds the mass - which is undenied fact. Maybe this sounds harsh but it is rigid truth as proved here as in many cases in history. Geniuses allays come in small numbers. From my perspective, If DCS is called "Simulator" (get this as constructive critics) then this Simulator should "simulate" real life conditions as much as possible in all phases of flight starting from (inspection) taxing to landing (shutdown) and even dirt operations. Far away from the fact that DCS isn't eyecandy and has great graphics and great modules extremely well simulated which is effort achieved not only by ED&FC but with aid from many other coders and designers in various groups, but still needs corrections in some portions of core code at which I pointed by making this thread. From other perspective it we are talking about DCS as "Game" then we can have as many rules that even defy physics and common sense and thus making "players" obey that rules to stay in the game. I came to DCS to be "pilot" not "player". :pilotfly:

Did you notice GE/DCS comparison images?

What, Mig15 Vaziani taxiway race Grandprix 30 circles challenge?

The are about to release that new Caucasus map soon and I aim that they will fix that shelter arrangement and make fillets on junctions as it should so that we all, new and old pilots, have less trouble taxing where we actually could in RL to make this simulator better. :pilotfly:

Well, sure, stick it on that taxiway, that's completely fine, I agree. Problem is when you have MP server with randomly placed slots that places you in that tightly packed shelters. Can't do much about that, right? Mig15 has slow spool up time and needs inertia to effectively use differential braking as it has no NWS. Even eased with 50% fuel still gets stuck when exiting that tight shelters that have like 25m facing door to door on crossing that non filleted junctions. I'm just stroking that ED should fix that in a way that either makes some taxiway line in that spots or hardens a soil around a bit. Simple as that. :thumbup:

The topic was initiated by fact that Mig15 with 50% of fuel got suck on grass. Mig15 weights (empty) 3580kg + 50% of fuel (710 kg) = 4290Kg (4440kg) total (pilot and guns ammo is about 150kg?). Wheel weight distribution goes something like 80% main wheels and 20% nose wheel (I assume) so it goes like nose wheel takes 888kg and each main wheel 1776kg per each tire. Should it stuck on dry weather on dirt or grass?

Conclusion: - All taxiway-taxiway or taxiway-runway junctions have fillet corners with sufficient radius as seen on previous GE pictures. - No concrete shelter is ever placed directly on taxiway in 90° fashion without taxiway buffer zone. - In DCS there are at least 3x times more hardened shelters per taxiway branch than in any RU/Georgia GE available airfield. This all makes differential braking extremely difficult. When fact that soviet fighters like Mig21 or Mig15 have relative ability to operate from dirt runways and can taxi on grassland either on dried or frozen soil without getting stuck is considered seriously that facts shouldn't allow moderately weighted plane to terminate safe operation of taxing. The only case when soil is soft enough is when its been soaked wet for a prolonged period of time due to environmental conditions or current season. In summer time there should be no problem taxing on dirt in booth fighters mentioned before as probably many others too.

Ok, lets start. Gudauta: GE Larger Image Reinforced shelters. Note the number of shelters and angle of taxiway junctions. DCS: Heavily packed shelters and little space to maneuver on taxing especially if using differential braking like on Mig15/21. --- Vaziani GE This portion of airfield wasn't available in GE in 2008 (This is latest one). Note the dirt taxiways and their composition. Older picture. DCS: Taxiways are way too narrow here and do not tolerate any deviation. GE one are made of hardened soil and have no concrete tiling. --- Sochi GE: Sochi in 2005. Sochi in 2012. DCS: Note the RL non existing and heavily packed shelters. ---

Fair. I'll give data and pictures of referenced airfields and how shelters are positioned and explain in details when airplanes sink in soil and why if info is dispersed. I need a day. In meantime I would like admin o change topic title to moderate version like "Difficult taxing in narrow taxiways" -- 1.3 Administrative actions against forum members are not subject to public discussion. If you feel an action against you was unjust or otherwise inappropriate, please use the Private Messaging (PM) system to appeal the action to other forum staff members or the forum administrator. 3.1 Forum staff based on currently written regulations and in case of their violations has imminent rights to: move, edit or delete user threads/posts; temporarily or permanently ban violators by any technically available means. -- I would Like admin to PM me so I can PM back. @Yurgon "you're right that DCS has never been "finished". I just really fail to see how that's a bad thing." Its Core should be finished, stable and ready to accept any new module flawlessly. Consider it like DCS should be an OS, modules should be Software build in DCS development framework like Visual Studio. That modular concept is missed here in my opinion.

With all respect did you understand problem and why slipping of taxiway ever occurred and where? I actually posted lot of soil scientific data, videos of Mig21 operation from dirt runway and other guy videos of Mig15 taxing on grass. All other (that disagree) posted some pictures of stuck planes either in rainy or muddy conditions when everything is slippy and muddy anyway - that is not an issue here.

As I said its not matter of taxing or overweight, some taxiways are too narrow especially between reinforced shelters. If weather is not rainy there should be no problem if Mig21 or Mig15 steps out of taxiway if not too heavy but when they step out they have this pulsating behavior that should not exist at all which just digs them deeper. Also if wheel axle isn't below ground level there shouldn't stuck because motion is still possible if powerful engine is in afterburner state like in Mig21. Anyone can say anything and trolls can burn in hell but having so many packed shelters and that super-narrow taxiways between is not by the book especially if logic says that someone had to harden that ground to level it around new build shelters because they had to dig a lot of material to construct shelters in a first place. To exit one in "big" Su27 you need to be positioned with your seat above grass with forward wheel still on taxiway like you're driving a truck where drivers seat is in front of forward wheels and all that time you need to watch wingtips not to hit walls. That is stupid as it endangers airplanes in RL. I checked some RL airports in GE and found out that shelters and taxiways are not ever that close packed as in DCS. Why I lost hours on that is because I've been playing this unfinished game for so many years that when you stuck once in a month that accumulates over the years. This game is here around 30 years since release of first Flanker and it should be finished and stable long time ago without people complaining about some features of this kind but its so.

Whats up with latest reduction of trim authority speed range? Low and high speeds are out of range now. Is it real?

U mean: easier to brake wings! As documented in many, many cases in former USSR, Russia and China. No other fighter ever in history of flight lost so many wings as Su27 did because Sukhoi made them out of glass instead of elastic steel-titanium core warped with aviation grade aluminum because of lack of material in anyway tiny Soviet union mining resources. :thumbup: Its of course off topic discussion so no need to stroke that :smartass: Anyway, @Devrim thanx for sharing your code :thumbup: Ill try that.