Tim_Fragmagnet

EDIT: This specific guess is incorrect, the text will remain unchanged Ladies and gentlemen I would like to present you with a possible origin of this inaccuracy in the huey module. Look at the tail rotor. Notice anything off about it? Look again. Hueys built for civilian use have their tail rotor on the right side. Even some modern military ones do. Those simply converted to civilian use do not. Why is this relevant? Page 319 of "Principles of Helicopter Aerodynamics" by J. Gordon Leishman Tail rotors in a tractor configuration, such as those on civilian hueys, provide less anti torque thrust, and this data is LITERALLY for UH-1C and UH-1D. It is directly relevant to us. What does this mean? This means that in civilian hueys, with the tailrotor on the right side of the tail, in the tractor configuration, you must apply more left pedal to get the same result. If the SMEs for this module flew civilian hueys, that's likely why the slip indicator asks for pedals to the left despite the correct direction being to the right. Because to apply the same amount of anti torque as a military huey while in a civilian huey, you need to add more left pedal. How much more left pedal? "Main Rotor–Tail Rotor Interaction and Its Implications for Helicopter Directional Control" gives us a look at what our answer could look like. NOTE: This paper talks about the direction in which the tail rotor spins, not its placement upon the tail, however if these results arise from just changing the way it spins, imagine what happens when you move the whole thing and change its performance. Up to 20% of the entire available range Sound familiar? It does to me. The anti torque thrust provided at specific pedal positions seems to be correct, but the pedal positions the slip indicator is asking for are not. No matter what the origin of the inaccuracy is, the fact still stands, the slip indicator does not function properly.

So not only are you flat out denying multiple cases of unique recorded evidence, you have refused to provide evidence of your own, and you're also conveniently forgetting to include the forward aspect of how a slip indicator works. You keep repeating "lateral forces", while conveniently ignoring (or are unaware of) the external forces at play as well. Yes, left pedal counters torque, thus stops the aircraft from yawing right Yes, this causes a rightward motion in the airframe, But what happens as we go forward? As we go forward, crabbing to the right, what happens? First, we gain translational lift, but more importantly, so does the anti torque rotor. Thus causing the aircraft to yaw to the left, thus causing the ball to go to the right. Thus requiring less left pedal to counter the torque. So we use less left pedal, IE more right pedal. Second, air pushes on the airframe Only one side of it, in this case, the right side This changes our flight vector To the left. Our aircraft is accelerating to the left of our established flight vector, It doesn't stabilize, it stays as an acceleration, because that acceleration is required for that flight vector to stay in that "pushed to the left" postion. We're still trying to push our helicopter along our established flight vector, To the ball, inside that glass tube filled with kerosine, ever so protected from the external forces trying to act upon it, To the ball it feels as if the entire aircraft is being forced to the left out from under it So the ball goes right. So we apply even more right pedal, until that lateral acceleration is no longer present, or is at least minimized. Centering the ball doesn't zero out crabbing Centering the ball zeroes out the forces acting upon the airframe, thus allowing the ball to rest in the center. And since we have applied right pedal, and have thus reduced the strength of the translating tendency any crabbing that remains can be easily countered with a small amount of left cyclic. Resulting in stable forward flight with the ball centered and the pedals to the right. The ball is along for the same ride the helicopter is, but it does not feel the external aerodynamic forces acting upon it. We aren't outrunning the ball, it's not "falling to the left of the slip indicator" because it "can't keep up" The ball goes to the right because it's trying to go in a different direction than the helicopter. To the ball, the helicopter is going to the left. That is why the ball goes right when you yaw left in a plane in wings level flight. That is why the ball goes right when you are crabbing to the right in a level helicopter. The DCS UH-1H module's slip indicator does not function properly. Please.

It's almost like the slip indicator takes the absolute torque value (such as from the torque indicator) into account for where the ball should be, which would explain quite a lot. I don't know though, I can't confirm that, because I don't have proof. I just know the slip indicator has some serious issues to the point where it heavily degrades flight performance and enjoyment.

And every single one of them has the ball centered with the pedals to the right. even the 5th one I just posted. That's FIVE separate hueys with slip indicators centered with the pedals to the right. The DCS huey is wrong.

I have provided 4 separate pieces of evidence that support my claim. It's up to you to provide real evidence that supports your claim. So unless you're saying all 4 helicopters have broken slip indicators, or all 4 helicopters are operating under the exact same parameters. An absurd idea either way. Either hop in the module and show us, or find at least 3 videos of a huey cruising with the pedals to the left and the ball centered. And you know what here's a F I F T H, now provide me 4 supporting your claim 2:16 65 knots Pedals right ball centered

What you're describing is translating tendency, which is not the source of this. I say this in the first post. Because if it were, the pedals and slip indicator would match the real thing.

The issue isn't the placement of the ball on it's own it's the placement of the ball in relation to the pedals in the real thing, at speeds seemingly as low as 70 knots, to fly straight, you are required to have some right pedal input this seems to be mostly modeled in the module however also in the real thing, the slip indicator is centered with the pedals to the right however in the module, if you apply the correct amount of right pedal to fly straight, the slip indicator incorrectly moves left in the module, you can center the slip indicator with enough left pedal, but you will be flying with a disgustingly large amount of sideslip, despite the slip indicator saying otherwise. something is wrong with the slip indicator, I'm sure you see it now as well. I just hope it's portrayed to the team in an effective manner. This issue has been brought up before but worded in such a way that it was made to look like a flight model issue instead of an issue with the slip indicator itself.

For a comparison I have put the freeflight huey into the same parameters as the first video while it's going down the runway I even have about the same fuel and the ground track is heading down the runway. (that's how much sideslip the slip indicator makes you fly with) there is one exception the pedals, look at them the slip indicator is mostly centered (IT WANTS EVEN MORE LEFT PEDAL) but the pedals are left If at this point, you don't think there is anything wrong with the slip indicator, I don't know what else to show or tell.

Absolutely lets start with this 94 seconds in we get this gem of a frame Pedals, slightly to the right Speed, around 105 knots Slip indicator Centered You can watch it throughout that whole flight, even when it's going around 100 over the runway near the end, pedals to the right, ball centered. here's another There aren't many moments of interest but, at 5:20 70 knots pedals right (you can tell because you can see the left foot and small amount of pedal back from center) ball centered you can even see the LINES If anything it's almost as if the ball is slightly RIGHT here's a video of a UH-1B, the airframe is shorter and it's a different engine in the airframe most likely, but the flight dynamics are pretty much the same. At 4:50 in the simulated rocket dive 85 knots pedals right ball centered OK 1 example, that's an outlier 2 examples, that's a coincidence 3 examples, that's a pattern Not enough? How about a fourth. Check the cockpit at 1:35 80 knots pedals right ball centered The slip indicator in the DCS Huey module does not function properly. To reclarify the flight model is fine, it properly has the requirement for right pedal input to fly straight at speed, the issue is that the slip indicator in DCS acts in direct opposition to this and instead incorrectly asks for left pedal input.

EDIT: I have done a large amount of personal research on this topic and have posted my findings later in this thread, however I will quote them here There is a lot of confusion, misinformation, and straight up speculation in this thread, I originally barely knew what was going on with any of this when I first posted. The contents of this quote are my current belief on this topic and I'm sure are the definitive answer as well. Anything past this quote is the original text of the opening post. This issue has been present in this module since at least 2016, if not earlier. I figured something as major as a broken flight instrument would be fixed relatively quickly but here we are. This has been reported before as the flight model not requiring right pedal input at speeds nearing and passing cruise. That is entirely false. The flight model has the right pedal requirement at these speeds properly implemented. The actual issue is that the slip indicator does not properly operate alongside this. As the need for right pedal increases, the leftward motion of the slip indicator increases, almost as if its effects are completely inverted. This is not some aerodynamic effect, it's not wind, it's not translating tendency, it's not the fact that the map is not projected on a globe, it's not user error, it's not a flight model issue. This is a genuine bug with a flight instrument. Don't believe me? Here is an image of the huey in cruise with the ball centered alongside an image of that exact moment in tacview. Notice anything? Because I do For comparison, here's an image of the huey in cruise that's actually closer to coordinated flight, look at the slip indicator Notice anything? I do, the slip indicator is wrong. Oh but surely the SMEs didn't let this slip by, surely this is how it's supposed to be. Right? No. Go look up any flight videos of the huey that show the cockpit during level cruise flight. You'll find that at 90knots, the slip indicator will be centered with the pedals slightly to the right, pretty much exactly as much as is required in DCS. The flight model is correct, it's quite good. The slip indicator is broken. I just want to be able to trust my flight instruments. Please, it's been long enough.

It's funny you say that, because translating tendency is a small enough effect that you can negate it by applying cyclic. Which doesn't work here because this issue isn't translating tendency. It's also funny you say that, since the issue at hand is based on speed and not torque. The issue isn't translating tendency, the issue is the slip indicator for whatever reason not reading properly while in motion at cruise speeds or higher. The flight model realistically depicts the requirement of right pedal input to properly trim out the aircraft in cruise, yet the slip indicator does not follow this requirement and in fact directly opposes it. As the need for right pedal increases, so does the leftward motion of the ball. Almost as if the slip indicator were not a dynamic flight instrument but were scripted to act in specific ways in specific situations, but was accidentally scripted to act backward for this one.

That phenomenon is actually called translating tendency, and it is also a far more subtle effect than what the incorrect slip indicator makes happen.

I will personally confirm that this issue is completely unrelated to wind, as it remains prevalent in missions with no wind at all.

Correct Here is the difference between instrument coordinated and actual coordinated flight in the huey as shown by real-time telemetry on tacview Flying by the indicator Actual coordinated flight Notice anything? Yeah, you have your right pedal requirement, the slip indicator is just wrong so no one thinks the right pedal requirement is there, then it gets reported as a flight model error when it's literally a bug with a flight instrument. Just ignore the slip indicator entirely tbh. I'm not sure if it's even correct in turns.

Having flown this module for hundreds of hours. It's not that you don't need to give it right pedal, it's that the slip indicator is just wrong. It has been broken like this since at least 2016, which is the earliest I can remember noticing the crabbing with the ball centered. I figured an issue as major as a basic flight instrument not functioning properly would be big enough to get fixed relatively quickly, but at this point I doubt it will ever get fixed. This is what level flight looks like at high speeds with the ball centered.

So some interesting things have happened. I got VR back in August, and IMMEDIATELY noticed that the specular maps were working even though they weren't when launched as a regular desktop application. I had done multiple VR On/Off comparisons by eye and can completely confirm it. I didn't think to take images of this at the time however. Cut a few months later, after a data storage failure, reinstall windows. HOWEVER, DCS was stored on a separate drive so its data was never deleted. But all of its configuration and old legacy files from previous versions were, as those were on the system drive which failed. Now the specular map works in desktop mode as well I believe. Something to note however, the shininess on the flat part of the dashboard (where all the dials are) requires such a sharp viewing angle to actually show up, that, without VR, you'd never see it. Which is in stark contrast to what I very clearly remember from before the radar altimeter was implemented. Where the sun would shine on the shiny bits under the radio card basically any time it shone there. Here is such an angle you can get from VR, you can see the scribbley scratchy shiny bit under the IAS The only way I can tell it's actually active on the desktop version is because of the way the top cover of the dashboard is shaped. So while the functionality is there for me now, it would seem that the specular maps now require such sharp viewing angles that the majority of it will probably never be seen. Perhaps another art pass at the dashboard specular to make the viewing angles more lenient?

I'm hoping one of those changes includes the fixing of the dashboard not using its specular texture. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=155792 It's been broken for years.

CSAR under fire.

I made that a thing. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=155837

Cyclic shaft £230 $302.20 base £250 $328.48 $630.67 Collective Shaft £270 $354.75 base £250 $328.48 $683.23 $1313.90

For those with the extra cash. Don't forget that Komodo Simulations already has UH-1 models of the cyclic and collective that are hydraulically dampened. http://www.komodosimulations.co.uk/Controls.html

Using Uboat's livery tool. I have noticed that the cockpit model is calling for the diffuse map for the main panel "uh1_panel_c" however it is not calling for the specular map "uh1_panel_s". This likely arose when the cockpit model was edited to add the radar altimeter.

Hypoxia modeling for helicopters when. (Yes my image is of a huey, but still. High altitudes apparently don't affect helicopter pilots.)

Having controls to manually push the main rotor by hand would be nice. So for when you land and shut down, you can push the rotor to face forwards and thus take up less space. Sure you can do it with the starter right now, but that eats through your battery.