Vault

I can't find any reliable information confirming the SAM hit the F-117 at 8000 ft, I'd like to get my hands on that info if anyone has a link. I'm not saying GGTharos is wrong, but I can't understand why the pilot thought the ejection seat was in mode 3, mode 3 is automatically selected by the chair when the aircraft is at high altitude. Also the pilot states he watched the first SA-3 come out of the cloudbase and had time to manoeuvre which also indicates he was a high altitude, You'd be lucky to even see the SA-3 at 8000FT with the limited vision of the F-117 let alone manoeuvre considering the cloudbase would of hidden the tale tale sign of the launch plume. The pilot states in his own words he had just performed a sortie using an LGB moments before he was shot down, Which also indicates this was performed at a high altitude and above the cloud base, I highly doubt that the USAF would make a laser targetting system for a VLO aircraft that was dictated by the height of the cloudbase, that would be tactically illogical, Put enough energy into a laser it will cut through metal there is absoultley no reason why a laser cannot cut through water vapour. IMHO I'm confident that F-117 dropped that LGB at high altitude and above the cloudbase.

My 2 cents so please don't flame. I'm just trying to be honest. Playability and AI, There's only so much tank killing I can do, the AI really doesn't help. I think DCS needs fast movers, there are alot of Falcon fans out there with itchy thumbs, I think DCS will come into it's own when we see the fast movers appear. An F-16 modelled correctly will see a mass exodus of F4 fans, the F-16 will probably be the most profitable module for ED.

nscode thanks for replying. Time sure does fly, my kids are testament to that. I'm not trying to be argumentative and I believe you but I have a video that I've taken of a Eurofighter performing a display, I couldn't hear that Eurofighter when it was less than 2 miles from me. I have it on video. Anyone who has heard a Eurofighter will no that they are far from quiet.

First of all I'd like to apologise to Evil Bivol for derailing his thread. NScode if you could hear the attacking aircraft why wasn't more NATO aircraft shot down? I would of thought low flying audible aircraft would of been a turkey shoot for the Serbian SAM's. GGTharos do you have a link for that information because I can't find squat. I'd like to get hold of that info. The reason why I thought that the F-117 was flying at approx 15000 - 25000 was because the pilot who was shot down in the F-117 said he thought that his ejection seat was in mode 3, mode 3 AFAIK is used when the F-117 is travelling at high altitude. Good question the pilot also said he spotted the first SA-3 come out of the cloud base. The pilot had completed an attack on a surface target using a LGB just moments before he was shot down which would indicate the pilot attacked the target from above the cloudbase.

OK Hitman, I don't get to hear many F-117's where I live. It makes no sense why a VLO aircraft would fly combat operations within ear shot. Who needs a low blow search and fire control radar for detection when you have the MK1 earlobe. F-117 is able to hit a 1 metre target at 25000 at night time. LGB's are accurate at 25000.

Do you have a link for that information? The F-117's combat opeartion height is 15000-25000. I find it amazing that the USAF would operate a VLO aircraft outside of the The F-117's combat opeartion height of 15000-25000. 8000 is 1.5 miles, I'm not sure if you'd hear a cruising non AB aircraft at that height.

Listening for a F-117 cruising at 15-25000? as in using the MK1 ear.

You're talking about the dodgy French officer and the 4 day unchanged flight plans? Yes there a factor but how do you explain the 6 minute window? They could never calculate the time of travel to within 16KM or a maximum of 6 minutes.

The SA-3 has a WEZ of 35KM, the SA-3's low blow search and control radar can track targets up to 40KM giving the SA-3 a maximum 6 minute detection window against the F-117 at cruise speed, the F-117 was hit at 12KM, pretty damn impressive or pretty damn lucky for a SAM battery that spent most of the time mobile with radars off. I'll go with lucky. The B-2 was rumour and nothing else. The F-117 that was "apparently" hit landed at an Italian AB and there was even a rumour of a third F-117 hit by AAA.

Awesome track, I really like the lyrics. It's now on my playlist. The guitar at 1:36 sounds great on my media system. :thumbup:

I bet those people in that paddle boat s**t themselves. :lol:

I agree the word "stealth" is often confused with invisible, personally I prefer to use the word "VLO". Hajduk with the upmost respect that F-117 kill was a VERY lucky shot, the odds on that happening a second time must be huge, I bet the Serb army would run out of SAMS before they got that lucky again, that SAM was very fourtunate to have gone active when the F-117 was out of its VLO parameters. The pilot had a bad day and the Serb SAM got lucky, The F-117 was never designed to fly close or directly over SAM. If those ex-soviet SAM were so effective against VLO targets we'd see a whole Museum dedicated to VLO US aircraft not just 1 single VLO airframe. With modern day ARM SAM search radars are unable to keep there radars permantley active.

OK you got me there bud lol the HARM can't loiter. By HARM I actually meant homing anti radiation missile. I wasn't speaking about a specific missile.

Hajduk maybe you can tell me why the NATO, Russia and India has invested and is still investing billions of dollars into VLO R&D when stealth technology is according to you just a "myth"?. VLO in a nutshell increases PK. Stealth doesn't force SAMS to scan for short intervals, HARM missiles with loiter capabilities do that. EDIT* Damn GG beat me to it.

I was on ebay when I came across this 1 man heli!, Some people are crazy enough to pay alot of money to fly it, question is would you have the courage to fly it? I certainly wouldn't. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HELICOPTER-BUG-3-BMW-Power-One-Man_W0QQitemZ260376189664QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CPV_Aviation_SM?hash=item260376189664&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A7%7C39%3A2%7C240%3A1318

Awesome pictures Groove, I can't rep you anymore.

I think weight and space are at a premium on the F-35, AFAIK the gunpod is temporary on the F-35, I've read some litrature sometime ago about eventually replacing the gun on the F-35 with the Northrop Gruman Joint High Power Solid State Laser which will be powered by the JSF's engine. http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1171 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1985610/posts http://www.textrondefense.com/pdfs/datasheets/jhpssl_1.pdf http://files.aws.org/wj/2006/02/wj200602/wj200602-10.pdf If I've got something wrong please correct me I'm only quoting what I read in several PDF's.

Well said RT. It appears to me like the former Soviet/NATO cold war generation can't let the past rest and hold some grudge against each other, well that's their war not mine to hell with another cold war, Like yourself I'm more concerned with the irrational fanaticism of certain religious groups currently butchering people on the Pakistan border. Russia is not my enemy. A Russian v's NATO war will yield no winners only losers, As Albert Einstein so finely put it, "I don't know how World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones".

Carlo Kopp's & Goons e-mail expressing grave concerns for the VLO JSF RCS against 20KW Irbis E. http://www.migman.com/org/AirPowerAustralia/docs/08-02-18-Releasable-LM-Response.pdf

Happy Birthday Groove. :thumbup:

I've never heard of a DU round for the M230. Here's a little book on Aerojet and Honeywell DU penetrators found in most US DU rounds. In that document contains the real reason why the US use DU instead of Tungsten. http://nonuclear.se/files/goldstick1984u-bullets-grey.pdf I also have a very good book on an experimental HEAB round for the GAU-8 if anyone's intrested.

Yes I do agree with you sorry I could of been a bit more helpful. AFAIK Most Russian ICBM's use lattice fins for control so take your pick http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/icbm/index.html TBH I'm not sure how many stages sport the lattice fins. http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/icbm/rt-2pm.htm

LOL Viper you got no hope, FLIR v's a MK1 eyeball puts the odds against the heli driver. Good luck trying to lock up an A-10 using the Skhval when it's WVR, It's hard enough locking another heli up plus I'll be rolling in on you from heights where the helis don't go. TBH I couldn't deal with the shame of being KIA'd by a whirlybird! It's just not going to happen (I hope) either way like you said it's going to be bags of fun. :thumbup:

AFAIK most Russian ICBM's use Lattice control surfaces.

The picture above explains the effects of the Lattice control surface at various mach. Even at high and low mach numbers where the R-77 is optimal it suffers from shockwaves within the lattice this creates drag. The picture below shows the overall performance of various missiles over it's trajectory. The ASRAAM is more efficient over its WEZ in terms of RCS and drag/range when compared to the R-77. The R-77 trades drag, distance and RCS for superiour control. Even though the R-77 has more range on paper than the AMRAAM the AMRAAM is alot more efficient in the higher end of it WEZ than the R-77 which is very important in BVR engagements. Weight, propellant, missile diameter and nose length play an important factor in a missiles performance.