Pirke77

good information and thnx for futures help Yo-Yo. but in serbia from last 20year mi8 pilots dont weary parachutes :( if machine go down we go with machine :) because of that i need all knowledge i can get to safe my little life :)

If flying were the language of man , autorotation would be its poetry :)

autorotation in extreme thunderstorm with maximum wind and turbulence velocity. autotunder.rar

autorotation in night situation without any lights in cockpit and landings lights , only position lights. night.rar

in DCS BS i fly with 30% of RPM in autorotation and if i fall below about 20% nose prop up and blades cut of little of peak blades. in this situation if i have collective all way UP rotor stop turning to zero RPM then go backward and forward and then if i put collective all way down rotor progressive accelerated and over speed and all blades because high running acceleration and centrifugal force go away from rotor. from track you see you can fly with control on 30% RPM all below this is very risky!!! because i only in this way with high speed about 360km/h i get 30% but when i try to lower speed or go up collective rotor get prop up moment and RPM drop to 20% or less and blades collide ;( little centrifugal force and rotor stall from diagram. to not happen rotor stall i must have little or 0km/h progressive speed but i cant get this speed in this situation :( . for little centrifugal force and blades collide i dont have solution because i cant test it in right parameters :( if any have solution how to put helicopter from 6km with no turning rotor and smallest possible progressive speed (can in mission editor make this) this will be great test :) 30%.rar

from generic russian student's book :)

from first picture we see that A2 is smaller then A1 (A angle of attack) so angles of attack of blades of second upper rotor must be bigger then first down rotor(construction solution) . from second pictures in autorotation one rotor must have accelerated running and second rotor decelerate running. maybe because of this moment of 2 rotors we can always have RPM no mater what because one rotor helps other and all again in circles ??? this is all my knowledge(its so small) of coaxial rotors so if someone fly coaxial rotor helicopters pls give us some information and explanation how it works in AUTOROTATION . P.S. in russia some aspect of coaxial rotors is still top secret for public and we only know what they mean we can know...

in all this schemes we see if we have collective all way UP we have stall blade ( only at theoretical at 0km/h we dont have stall blade) and we cant control helicopter at all speed diapasons(in theoretical if speed is 0km/h we can control) and RPM go decelerating. decelerating to some limit??? (this limit i dont now)??? this limit is when centrifugal force because lowering RPM is not enough to keep blades in normal position and they go UP like umbrella and reap off rotor. secret magic information :( HOW MANY RPM IS THIS LIMIT IF EXIST ??? Did RPM go to some limit of rotor blade crash? or we just drop like brick and have some RPM and we cant recover anything in this point and go to GOD? in DCS BS is all strange from my test or coaxial rotor have Master of ring top secret or some kind of magic :( P.S. all this i was testing is for single rotor helicopters . maybe coaxial rotor can do this???

here is restriction of rotor stall in autortotation. from test: -speed of planing 152km/h(42m/s) -RPM 300 r/min -collective 6 degrees on 6 degrees we have stall rotor so from scheme we must drop speed to 100 or 110 km/h or lower collective to 3-4 degrees. from formula in this i can put in 15 degrees collective on 0km/h or on small speeds with 10 degrees and there i dont have rotor stall.

this is scheme in witch direction will be running of rotor from 0-180 angles of attack if rotor disk when we drop it from some big altitude didnt running at all. this is info from airflow tunnel. from second picture you see if we in diapason of normal RPM rising or dropping collective isnt important from vertical speed velocity in autorotation (its is exactly same for all angles of blades) . on third picture is scheme of progressive speed / vertical speed in autorotation .

this is some schemes from my school book. on first pictures is accelerated , decelerated and stabilize running of RPM in vertical autorotation. on second picture is 3 way of autorotaion (vertikal autorotaion, combinated autorotaion or normal autorotation and plane landing autorotation ) . you see use of kinetic energy only of rotor RPM , then combination of kinetic energy of RPM and kinetic energy of progressive speed then only kinetic energy of progressive speed. on third pictures is blade angle of attack from min to max collective position and reserve of RPM in this conditions.

what is minimum RPM when rotor disk ''cone'' will be crashed because rotor blades dont have enough centrifugal force and go up and crash like umbrella? or this will never happen because constructor made helicopter do never lower RPM below this minimum at all attack angles of rotor blades in autorotation? i now that for every helicopter is the different minimum RPM but did any have info and experience with some other helicopter? and if RPM drop below minimum can we recover RPM to safe range? in real life i dont have courage and balls to TEST this because i still have gray little thing in my head :) maybe constructors test this in airflow tunnels but why this information didnt for public??? this information will be BIG thing for pilots. all this is reasonable for testing ONLY on high altitude minimum 3km because helicopter have time to get or not to get in autorotation in this extreme situations. i think because helicopters fly on low altitude most of their flights, this kind of situation didnt learned and teach to much. because that only safest way to helicopter get in autorotation on this altitude( below 1km) is to drop collective down and keep safest progressive speed and be in constructors limits and all instructors teach new pilots this routine, because this is only reasonable and correct way, because on this altitude helicopter will only like this get and keep RPM in safe range. all other way is forbidden way and because that and older pilots didnt now what will be in this extreme situations and they just say ''NO NO dont do this''.

press trigger and hold it about 2s

pls ED do you have some contact with real Ka-50 pilot to ask him to explain is this good or bad ? if you can do this in real life then this helicopter is MEAN MACHINE and you dont need eject seat :) If you try this in MI8(russain helicopter) and Gazella (french helicopter) (this 2 helicopters i fly) you will be dead man :( THNKS

yes VERY easy :( pls look track and you will see what i taking about. one autorotation was do at collective all way UP and no touching any commands. second coletive all way DOWN and no touching any commands . third was do at half way UP collective and i use commands to land safe. very strange ;( if RPM fall below minimum why stay there with all way UP collective??? why RPM didnt fall to zero because driven and stall region on rotor is bigger then driving region and rotor dont get increasing force to keep spinning??? and in one time when spinning rotor is to low centifugal force of rotor blades is smaller and rotor blades go up and its look like funnel when helicopter going down and we wait crash on rotor blades like umbrella.

http://www.2shared.com/file/XWzVl38Y/Pirke_BS_test_track.html http://www.2shared.com/file/Td4ZD-DN/maxweight_autorotation.html http://www.2shared.com/file/6g4OColN/maxweight_vertikal_autorotatio.html scroll all way down and click on ''click here'' in right down corner on ''Save file to your PC'' ok look this tracks and I wait comments. in folder ''strange autorotation TEST'' is 3 situation i ask in questions. on second link is TEST of 3 situation with MAX LOAD. on 1 colective all way UP and no touching commands, on 2 collective half way up and normal landing , 3 collective all way down and didnt touch to the end of landing only use cyclic this time because vertical speed and progressive speed is to big for safe landing without touching commands. on third link i make vertical autorotation with zero speed with max load and landing gear do job again :) here look the safest way to crash land in combat area ;) pilot always ok and only landing gaer damaged :) from this test i see its again the same problem again with collective all way UP :) all in all i see from this TEST if you have vertical speed about 15m/s and speed about 100 km/h you can safe crash land without touching commands and pilot survive :) and if you have engines failure you dont need to lower collective all way down to make good autorotation and safe RPM and your LIFE. All this is very weird ;( THNKS

i talk about MIL-8 in real life. and point of all is here you can make autorotation with 50% and land safe :) i will upload track later. in you tube video you do autorotation with plane approach. this you can do only on RUNWAY if you try it on some other terrain you will be dead. to much speed in approach. its 3 type of autorotation : plane aproach with speed over 100km/h (when helicopter was invented this was only way to land in autorotation and its needed terrain about 500m) , vertical autorotation with speed below 50km/h and combined with speed 60-100km/h. now in all helicopters pilot do combined (combination of this 2) because is safer then other 2.

i will upload all my track of testing

i play on simulation mod but and i can crash if i like but here is some bug or bad programing :) in real life my minimum % of rotor RPM is 89% for 30s and if i go under this i am dead man :( here is something i dont understand :( maybe is some coaxial rotor magic :)

hi all you now when motors go down what you must do '' To prevent RPM decay, the pilot must promptly lower the collective pitch control to reduce drag and incline the total aerodynamic force vector forward so it is near the axis of rotation. Remember in some helicopters you can go from normal operating rotor RPM to an unrecoverable blade stall condition in Under 10 Seconds.'' Why in DCS BS this is not correct ??? question is : 1.what happen when in autorotation RPM go below minimum unrecoverable RPM ? 2.is rotor stop running to zero and we continue to fall like brick or rotor still have some RPM but still fall like brick ? if has why me can't recover RPM to ''safe'' RPM? 3.i ask this questions because in DCS Black Shark you can always recover RPM in autorotaion. even i try some test and i realize DCS dont do job right in this simulation or i get wrong and i apologize in beginning :( -i try vertical autorotation with collective all way UP from 1000m altitude and in this situation helicopter continue autorotation (RPM go to 40% of rotor and then stabilize on 50%) and vertical speed of decent was about 10-12 m/s and with landing gears down helicopter land only with damage of gear (i didnt touch no control at all :) in real life if i do this my RPM will go to zero or what ??? -another test was when i shot down motors collective was in middle position and helicopter continue in autorotaion with speed 100km/h and 60% rotor RPM. i didnt put down collective like in real situation all pilot WILL. and i use half way of collective to make clear land on runway :) this is very strange to me :( -third test i shot down motors and i put collective all way UP and helicopter get in autorotation and stabilize on 70km/h with 50% rotor RPM. i take down landing gear and dont touch anything then. helicopter still fly in this autorotaion with 10m/s vertical decent and make crash landing with small damage EVERY time :) again very strange to me :( -forth test was shot down motors and i put collective all way DOWN and helicopter get in autorotation and stabilize on 210km/h with 50% rotor RPM. i take down landing gear and dont touch anything then. helicopter still fly in this autorotaion with 16-18m/s vertical decent and make crash landing with small damage EVERY time but pilot always alive :) again i dont understand this ????? -so pilot is no needed to fly in autorotaion in DCS because helicopter always land alone with no problem and pilot go home alive ? if someone touch commands heli crash :) I love DCS BS but i need to see real FM model and behavior of helicopter and when i try some test in this SIMULATOR to make the same test in real life. For all this years only YOU made the first GOOD helicopter simulator! All other just try in this. For this i hope all who now helicopters aerodynamic , all REAL and VIRTUAL pilots and ED DCS will answer we on this question because i and all others pilots really need answer on this. It is possible or just bag in game or bad programing and what will happen in real life if i do all this? THNKS for making my life better . . .

where is MI8 the mother of all helicopters :)

why when you try to land on any terrain flat or not on mountain or on field helicopter bouncing of ground like nervous grandmother no more meter how you gentle you are ??? in real life you can land on this terrain and is no problem at all :) but here you have big problem to land on any terrain off road:) you dont have this problem when you land or road or airport or even building, but when try to land in field its like you try to land on carrier in thunderstorm :) this BUG is from beginning and when it will be fixed??? here helicopter is like bouncing ball :) pls admins or ED to fix this problem. BIG THNKS from real helicopter pilot

TNHKS MY FRIEND:) ITS WORK :) THIS WAS REASON: noisemax = 0.6; noisemin = 0.1;

GREAT WORK !!!

no i dont :( i send you on pm my skype and email