The Falcon

It is difficult to explain precisely because of the terminology between what is raltively absolute and what is absolute. I am simply pointing not to say that the bug found by bkthunder is wrong but that his claim that the constant wind affects 0 on the FM is incorrect. It is not corrected from a material point but it is corrected from a relative point. As I wrote in my last post, the wind does not change the aerodynamic performance which remains absolute both with the relative speed and with the speed respect to the ground. As you say once in the air both aircraft have the same absolute climb rate or stall speed (but not the absolute airspeed) but what I say and that they do not have the same absolute climb due to the constant wind. Let me explain. One will rise before the other. Even removing the ground, if we put the two planes side by side, we will see the one with the tailwind exceed the one with the headwind, this is what I mean when I say that the constant wind changes the flight. Constant wind dont change only the aerodynamic point. Then there is another thing to say. It is practically impossible not to be influenced by the constant wind in flight because we always have a route to follow, so unless we are completely parallel to the wind we will have to face it as if it were a landing. With constant wind, your relative speed is the same, relative to the aerodynamic point, not to the material point as with the tailwind you arrive first at your destination, therefore also a lower fuel consumption compared to a headwind. However this video clarifies my thinking.

I understand, it's like you say i know. What I was trying to say is that it is not correct to say that the constant wind affects 0 on the FM as bkthunder said. If you read the last post you will notice that i wrote that the wind does not change the aerodynamic performance, or at what relative speed an airplane generates a total of lift etc ... those are static, what changes is the flight as a whole because we cannot escape the earth, we must always head towards a point. If we sail in the wind then we move with it but the vector of gravity does not, (moreover the planes always follow a route, like when they land) So the constant wind affects the flight for these reasons, not on the aerodynamic properties. This video expresses my concept

I'm writing what I tried to say here for the last time since someone thinks I am a troll. I don't think you are a troll but honestly i would have preferred it because if you don't understand the most basic things... What I know and what I think. First, what is the wind and how it is generated. It is a displacement of air relative to the ground. It is measurable only, I repeat, ONLY when it moves in a different direction from the earth's rotation. When the air moves together with the earth there's no wind, I repeat there is NO wind. And now comes the inertia. I think you all know the example of the man moving on the train. The example says that if you are dragged at a certain speed, then a certain motion, your body will keep the motion itself. This happens to the plane in the constant wind, which is why it is said that it does not affect the aerodynamic characteristics, as well as the man on the train that moves with uniform motion does not feel any acceleration. But what if the man tries to run in the same direction as the train? seeing how many of you think i suppose you don't know it. I make it easier, what happens if the man make a small jump? obviously you will say that he falls in the same point of the train, this is right. What if he makes a jump of a hundred meters? Well it happens that it doesn't even land on the train that meanwhile will have passed him! and why does this happen? it happens because gravity is a constant acceleration that bring you down and also the wind outside the train in not moving. What does all this have to do with flight. Do you think the plane is a magical thing without mass that is not attracted to the ground in a constant way? Same thing applies to the wind when it drags an aircraft, when the pilot decides to oppose the direction of the wind, he will have to consider it as a force vector therefore definitively the constant wind affects the flight. Just to be clear for those who are slow to understand. The wind, constant or not, in no way alters the aerodynamic properties, it do not change the CL or the CD, the only thing that does is interact in the overall flight. I hope someone, moderator or expert can help me, maybe we could open a new discussion. I think i give up

I answer everyone for the last time. Mar I'm not trolling anyone, if you are afraid of confrontation here we can always open another discussion. Hummingbird You also don't understand. Forget the earth. If the pilot has to oppose the direction of the wind, this means that the wind is a force, the only way for the aircraft not to "feel" the wind is to get carried away by it in its direction, ground or not, nothing changes. bbrz Why do you think I posted the DCS video? simply because it demonstrates what I say as well as all the crosswind landing videos. Again climb. The example you did on the object at the end of the runway is right, this is exactly what contradicts you when you say that the climbing performances are the same both with headwind and with tailwind. If they were the same, the plane would have been at the same altitude. Of course, you know how the climb is measured? do you know it's a speed like m/s? It tells you how quickly a plane go up, it is a vertical speed, and if at the end of the runway with tailwind you are lower than the headwind, this means that for the same time you went up less! nope you are pathetic

What happens is this: nothing. I keep flying perfectly safe at 100kts IAS. My ground speed will be 100kts IAS + 50Kts GS = 150 kts ground speed as opposed to 50Kts GS when I was flying with a headwind. That's it. P.S. the onyl reason why I would stall is I made that turn *so* quick that I pulled too many Gs and dropped my speed below stall speed, or my AoA was so high that I stalled. But all of this has nothing to do with wind, so... Now give me a chance to explain better why I replied Foxromeo that the plane stalled. Fox is talking about inertia and a "quick turn". Let's do this, take the quick turn off and say that magically you are hit by the tilwind in an instant, i know it is no longer constant wind but let's pretend it is, what happens? it happens that until the wind has overcome your inertia and has dragged you at its own speed, YOU WILL STALL! I know this in reality occurs only with gusts of wind but the example was to make it clear that the constant wind affects the flight when you try to oppose its direction. The wind is a moving mass, therefore it exerts a force, this is physical! The wind exists because the air does not follow the direction of the earth's rotation (for various reasons that i don't explain and you already know) and affects the aircraft because the mass of the plane is not attracted in the direction of the wind but towards the center of the planet! this is physical! I've been trying to say this for a day.

Some DCS fun wind :)

No sorry but you are wrong and also in contradiction. Imop you all, are misunderstanding things written and you cannot understand what you see with your eyes. You contradicted yourself about climbing. If you climb slower because of the tailwind there will be a reason? the reason is that the wind influences the climb rate because the relative speed changes, and by relative speed I mean the speed that generates the aerodynamic forces in the absence of wind, so headwind= more portance= fast climb. Do you say during the landing the pilot has to correct the crosswind? And doesn't this mean that the constant wind influences the flight? The plane does not change its shape or it's aerodynamic characteristics, but the way it performs changes according to the wind direction. For the last part; the wings produce lift when they advance in the air, or when the wind hits them from the front, if wind hit the rear, they no longer generate lift, no lift= stall This is a video of how the headwind interacts with the aircraft from the front, if it had been from the side, things would have been much clearer but use the imagination..

Look what cofcorpse said This applies in simulation but also in reality, it is very similar. The flight model can be divided into the aerodynamic part and the part more related to simple physics, such as gravity and inertia. Planes have mass, therefore inertia and suffer gravity. Same thing for the wind. When a pilot has to land in a 90 degree wind for example, the pilot has to maneuver to keep the course, do you know what this means? means that the (constant) wind affects the aircraft! This is because the wind exists when the atmosphere does not move together with the rotation of the earth! wind is a force! it is not a magical thing that only applies when the tires touch the ground:doh:

That's a contradiction. Climb change with the wind. When headwinding, the wind speed is added to that of the aircraft speed, this is because aerodynamically the lift is produced with the advance of the wings in the air. More lift = more climb, more climb = more ft/min and vice versa. So an aircraft with the tailwind will climb slowly. So are you saying that if an airplane does not have wheels on the ground the constant wind does not influence it regardless of its direction? regardless of which route the pilot decides?

exactly, because up and down depends on gravity while if the wind comes from the right it is clear that that force will move you (relative to the ground) to the left, but not only, if it comes from behind and it is sufficient to make your relative speed lower or equal to the stall speed, the plane will fall. So wind affect the FM

I understand what you mean but you're wrong. The point is that if the air moves in one direction, and constant "to the earth that is firm" and you pilot want to go to a specific point on earth, you have to deal with the wind, it is very simple, it is what happens during the crosswind landing, during the takeoff with headwind when the climb performance is greater than no-wind and much greater than tailwind. So constant wind effect at all the plane in the air because due to the gravity laws all things are moving in their respective center of gravity(center of the earth)

It was an example to say that if your relative speed is below the stall speed, even if you had a tailwind of 600km/h you would fall! gravity exists.

And that's because the constant wind impacts the performance of the aircraft when it is in the air regardless of how the graund speed changes. The lateral impact of the wind affects the FM, wind is a force.

Is a plane in the air before landing? I would say yes so steady state winds affect for all the fly

Good to know thx

Steady state wind effects all the flight, and crosswind landings are proof of this, for example it happens if the pilot decides to go 90° to the wind direction, do you think it doesn't influence? Think not to stall with tailwind? A plane travels at 100kts with a frontal wind of 50kts, this plane has a stall speed of 75kts, if we assume to rotate the wind direction 180° in an instant, we will have an aerodynamic relative speed of: V= Vairplane - Vwind = 50kts 50 is below stall speed and the aircraft will aerodynamically stall. While the ground speed will be: Vplane + Vwind = 150kts

Absolutely not, the aerodynamics do not change but the consequences still, the plane as well as the wind have mass and inertia and are subject to gravity. For exaple tail wind affect climb. I'm talking about steady wind wich has affect on an aircraft in flight but not on the ground. Videos are clear, look for extreme crosswind landing, the aircraft is in the air when wind affect it

I wonder where you got this information from. it is simple physics or there must be a misunderstanding. When i say wind can affect the FM i mean something like this This is an example of how wind affects landing. Before the plane touches down the wind influences it, but when the wheels are anchored to the ground the wind no longer has the same effect. So the wind affects the aircraft when it is flying.

You will stall

I believe you are confusing yourself or people have not understood what you mean. The bug you found is correct but your claim that the wind would not affect an airplane in flight is wrong. It is also easy to see, just search on youtube crosswind landing to understand. And yes I'm not talking about gusts of wind but of continuous wind. Let me explain some concepts. Relative speed, absolute speed etc ... are not the point, these are only useful considerations for the pilot to understand how he has to pilot. The wind affects the flight model simply because it is a mass of air that hits an object, even if in a constant way, it will inevitably interact with it.

Because we like the world of aeronautical simulation? Anyway i asked because i was curious about the consequences...

I think the wind affects once in the air, but it depends, and I don't talk about wind gusts. It depends on: wind speed/direction, exposed surface and weight of the aircraft. I believe that this is clearer to the reader. So absolutely the wind must and can affects the FM

I'd like to understand exactly why this rule is necessary

If you can help me find a larger version of this image, possibly close to the original it would be nice :)

We have a carrier so I think they will be aiming for the A6, then can you imagine seeing yourself inside cockpit with your co-pilot in multiplayer? The A6 could also lead people to ask for civil modules competing with civil FS and aspiring to a global map :) Anyway I would like the Tornado.