maxsin72

I think the cause is really good and donate is a really good thing. I don't want to change the rules, this is not my tournament and i'm not the one who must say which are the rules. That said, if somobody tells that F14B natops chart tell the truth and that he is right because he his a real pilot of F16/F18, i want to hear what a real skilled pilot of F14 say about the argument. And the real life skilled pilot of F14 said something completely different, in the 2019 video i posted he say: Well, I, like I say, I’ve been pretty successful against eagles in my time. Um, but at to answer actually truthfully if you look at, if you look at a like an [inaudible] straight up at 14 a versus an f 15 clean, no, no, no big tanks in rails on and those kinds of things. The F 15 is a, has a, is a higher performing aeroplane, but it all comes down to an end game and all this stuff. It all comes down to the pilot and the f 14 you could, as I mentioned before, you can configure it certain ways and all of a sudden it turns into another animal. So when I fought really quality pilots in those kinds of aeroplanes and I configured my aeroplane in the prohibited configuration, I generally wound up, I could present an aeroplane that was superior to theirs in the slow speed environment.

I repeat that Snodgrass said the pilot of F18 was a top gun instructor. That was the story and that was the real way the Tomcat was flown by Snodgrass. Now, in a simulated tournament, real life situations are banned, i can't call this "realism".

That was the story, that is history. There is no judgment, it was a fact and it also was a fact that during mock dogfights between Navy and Airforce everybody push his plane over the limits, that was and that was for real during those years and so Snodgrass pulled Tomcat over 6,5g, over 7,5 and also over 9,5g, and it was for real, he used full flaps that somebody called "bug" in the name of realism but, in the name of realism, that was the real story. You could like it or no but, if you want realism, you must also want the Tomcat used just like in his history in real life.

I think you didn't understand: the guy was not a kid, was a top gun instructor. He was bragging so he can beat a horn tomcat all day long. But he didn't, end of lesson. During war natops, if necessary, can remain on a chart.

When i wrote that Tomcat has no g-limit, i mean that there is no limiter and the pilot can decide to pull till the plane breaks Snodgrass it'not a simple pilot, perhaps he is "The Pilot" for excellense of F14: pluridecorated, 26 years and more than 4800 hours (i don't know if the 3 pilots involved in the tournament all together can reach 4800 hours on a single war plane) on the Tomcat. I think nobody can match him and no other F14 pilot is called to made conference by institutions. Take a look at this: US Navy highlights include: One of the first two Navy Flight School Graduates to be selected for F-14 Tomcat training. First non fleet experienced pilot to Carrier qualify in the F-14 Tomcat, both day and night. 12 operational Fighter Squadron/Wing tours. Navy Fighter Weapons School Graduate and Instructor (TOPGUN). Selected as the Navy’s Fighter Pilot of the Year in 1985. Selected by Grumman Aerospace as “TOPCAT OF THE YEAR” (best F14 Pilot in 1986). 12 Operational Fighter Squadron / Wing tours. Command of Fighter Squadron 33 during Desert Storm. Led 34 combat missions in Desert Storm as overall Strike or Fighter Lead. Wing Commander for all of the Navy’s F-14 Squadrons (14), totaling over 300 aircraft and 5,000 personal from 1994 – 1997. Highest time F-14 Pilot, with 4,900 hours in the Tomcat. 7,800 hours in Fighters including 1,287 Carrier Arrested Landings. Tomcat Flight Demonstration Pilot 1985 – 1997. Military Decorations include: Legion of Merit (3) for superior performance in positions of great responsibility. Bronze Star (1) for Leadership and (1) for Valor during Desert Storm. Meritorious Service Medal (2) for exceptional service in the position of Senior Leadership. Air Medal (2) for Valor during Desert Storm, (1) Strike. Navy Commendation Medal (3). Various Service and Campaign Ribbons and Award. Civilian Aviation and Air-show highlights include: Volunteer instructor for the Kenya Wildlife Service Pilots in Kenya bush 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006. Over 12,500 total hours which includes 7,800 Navy Fighter hours and 2,500 hours in Vintage Fighters (Warbirds). Just exceeded over 1,000 hours in F-86 Sabre. Surface Solo and Formation Aerobatic qualified in: 1. F-86 Sabre 2. Mig 15 Fagot 3. Mig 17 Fresco 4. L-39 Albatross 5. MS760 Paris Jet 6. P-51 Mustang 7. F4-U Corsair 8. P-40 Warhawk 9. T-6/SNJ Texan/Harvard 10. 8KCAB Super Decathlon • Designated one of only nine civilian USAF Heritage Pilots. • 25 Years of Air-show experience and over 1,000 low level performances in high performance aircraft. • Single / Multi-Engine / Instrument Instructor (CFI). • FAA designated Aerobatic Competency Evaluator and Designated Formation Check Pilot. • 20 years providing Low Altitude (Air-show) Aerobatic Instruction. So my suggestion is to listen what the most skilled F14 pilot in history say about the plane limits and listen to what he say about real life mock dogfight (F14B vs F15) during which the plane was also damaged but it was and it was normal in a match between Airforce and Navy, i call this realism because it really happened and i would like in a tournament the same realism This about g-limits: And this about F14B vs F15

I think that a pilot with more then 4800 hours on F14 in war and in peace time knows very well what he is talking about. It's this the reason i think that NATOPS graphics don't tell the truth about F14 and also 8g limit it's not realistic. Snodgrass made those Lectures at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in July 2019 and i think nobody has the skills to say anything different, also real pilots of F16 and F18 who have less then one third of his flying hours on other planes. Other videos are coming.

Little story about F14 vs F18 and prohibited full flaps in real life :D

You are only trolling dude, only trolling...

You did not answer to my question and that is what matter, but you are still in time to do it. I repeat the question: do you think it's fair to say to another pilot, who saved lives and a plane, that he only damage the aircraft?

Dude i did not ask anything at you, ok? But now i ask if you think it's fair to say to another pilot, who saved lives and a plane, that he only damage the aircraft. I think that respect is necessary, ok? From everybody and i mean really everybody, ok?

Yes, i understood :) He made 12.5 because nobody told him about the stick update. But what i mean was that the structure was not damaged and not that 12.5 is a normal g rate :) But this make me also think that the cat could handle 9g in total safety.

Really really interesting, expecially the part in which says : "i know six and half was the max but i routinely exceeded them on fighting guys out there because you have to sometimes" And listening to him, seems that 12,5g was not a problem at all.

Thank you for your answer :)

I understood over-g could damage aircraft structure and i wrote it. I repeat the question: if necessary, to save your life, you would use over-g or you would respect g limit and die losing also the aircraft? I think that perhaps is better to damage something and not lose all, am i wrong?

I'm not interested in god mode. My question was what to do in real life to save the life. For example think to dogfight you in an f16 and your enemy in an eurofighter: if necessary, to save your life, you would use over-g or you would respect g limit and die losing also the aircraft? I think that perhaps is better to damage something and not lose all, am i wrong?

Did they reduced G limit for cheaper maintenance? It is your tournament so do what you want. But if you want realism, the opinion of an F-14 pilot matters a lot, and if this pilot has almost 5000 hours over an F14, pluridecorated, his opinion matters a lot more.

8G seems reasonable, but i would really like an opinion of a real F14 pilot. About Tomcat, it seems that graphics and papers don't say all. Also for me realism is important.

I agree with you and i know NATOPS. But why at the beginning Mover and the others gave the limit of 7 g when the Natops limit is 7.5G? And i never said that in normal conditions you can pull 8-10g, but what if it's necessary to save ourself, RIO and plane and it is the only way to do that, what to do? I think that only a skilled F14 pilot could answer.

Be quiet please, be quiet

Unfortunately i confirm what i wrote because in real life a good pilot, just like Snodgrass, save his RIO life, his own life and the plane, but take a look at what Mover wrote: Do you think this is realism? I don't think so. And please, tell "idiot" to another one, ok? you are not welcome if you insult.

I forgot to mention that Snodgrass was also a former Top Gun instructor. https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/capt-dale-snort-snodgrass/ And i think you are absolutely wrong and also unfair because, with that you call an over-g, he has saved the life of his RIO, his own life and an f14 which costs many millions of dollars, from a mach 4 SAM missile during a mission of war in the Gulf, and he also didn't damage the plane because he had to go back to the carrier and land. You had to write he was an hero, and the fact you did not, put me many doubts regard the person you are and how much you are fair. And you have 0 hours on a Tomcat while Snodgrass has 4800 hours, 1000 carrier landings night, day and all kinds of weather conditions. So, i'm sorry, but i go on to trust what Snodgrass say and i go on to think that if an over-g in real life will save my life and the life of my RIO i'll do it without any problem and i would never be your RIO on an F14 after what you wrote about Snodgrass. Here is his curriculum: US Navy highlights include: One of the first two Navy Flight School Graduates to be selected for F-14 Tomcat training. First non fleet experienced pilot to Carrier qualify in the F-14 Tomcat, both day and night. 12 operational Fighter Squadron/Wing tours. Navy Fighter Weapons School Graduate and Instructor (TOPGUN). Selected as the Navy’s Fighter Pilot of the Year in 1985. Selected by Grumman Aerospace as “TOPCAT OF THE YEAR” (best F14 Pilot in 1986). 12 Operational Fighter Squadron / Wing tours. Command of Fighter Squadron 33 during Desert Storm. Led 34 combat missions in Desert Storm as overall Strike or Fighter Lead. Wing Commander for all of the Navy’s F-14 Squadrons (14), totaling over 300 aircraft and 5,000 personal from 1994 – 1997. Highest time F-14 Pilot, with 4,900 hours in the Tomcat. 7,800 hours in Fighters including 1,287 Carrier Arrested Landings. Tomcat Flight Demonstration Pilot 1985 – 1997. Military Decorations include: Legion of Merit (3) for superior performance in positions of great responsibility. Bronze Star (1) for Leadership and (1) for Valor during Desert Storm. Meritorious Service Medal (2) for exceptional service in the position of Senior Leadership. Air Medal (2) for Valor during Desert Storm, (1) Strike. Navy Commendation Medal (3). Various Service and Campaign Ribbons and Award. Civilian Aviation and Air-show highlights include: Volunteer instructor for the Kenya Wildlife Service Pilots in Kenya bush 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006. Over 12,500 total hours which includes 7,800 Navy Fighter hours and 2,500 hours in Vintage Fighters (Warbirds). Just exceeded over 1,000 hours in F-86 Sabre. Surface Solo and Formation Aerobatic qualified in: 1. F-86 Sabre 2. Mig 15 Fagot 3. Mig 17 Fresco 4. L-39 Albatross 5. MS760 Paris Jet 6. P-51 Mustang 7. F4-U Corsair 8. P-40 Warhawk 9. T-6/SNJ Texan/Harvard 10. 8KCAB Super Decathlon • Designated one of only nine civilian USAF Heritage Pilots. • 25 Years of Air-show experience and over 1,000 low level performances in high performance aircraft. • Single / Multi-Engine / Instrument Instructor (CFI). • FAA designated Aerobatic Competency Evaluator and Designated Formation Check Pilot. • 20 years providing Low Altitude (Air-show) Aerobatic Instruction. https://swisspl.com/ambassadors/dale-snort-snodgrass/

Mover Snodgrass is an ace and also a living legend : If you've researched information on the F-14, it is pretty likely that the name Dale Snodgrass has appeared somewhere in what you've read. "Snort" is virtual legend in the Tomcat community, and with more than 4,800 hours in the F-14, he is the most experienced Tomcat pilot in the world. Over a 26-year career in Naval Aviation, he had moved from being the first student pilot to trap an F-14 on a carrier to commanding the US Navy's entire fleet of Tomcats as the Commander of Fighter Wing Atlantic. Now retired, Snort is on the airshow circuit, flying a wide range of aircraft, from the F4U and P-51 to the F-86, MiG-15, and MiG-17. The accolades for Snort's flying are long and distinguished.....twelve operational Fighter Squadron / Wing tours, including command of Fighter Squadron 33 during Desert Storm, the Navy's "Fighter Pilot of the Year" in 1985, Grumman Aerospace's "Topcat of the Year" for 1986, a US Navy Tomcat Flight Demonstration Pilot from 1985-1997, and numerous decorations for combat and peacetime flight. http://www.sponauer.com/snodgrass/ https://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/the-real-top-gun-32185/?page=1 I don't know who are you but i trust what Snodgrass say. I'm sure that the experience in real life of Snodgrass is true and you are not the person who can tell that nodgrass is wrong about f14. I repeat that he is an ace and also a living legend. About the question of G limit f14 has not g limit in real life and in real life the only limit is when the f14 breaks. So the g limit for f14 is only your limit and not a real limit, not to mention some iranian pilots who claim they pulled f14 past 10g. And in real life a real pilot don't need to look at the g indicator beacause he feels it with his body. I think you don't really know what is realism.

And here is the link to the interview at Dale Snodgrass http://www.sponauer.com/snodgrass/ From a combat perspective, it was when I had a flameout over Iraq while executing a last ditch surface-to-air missile defense. I was leading a night Fighter Sweep in support of an A-6 strike on a power plant on the north side of Baghdad. My flight had flushed a couple MiG-29’s and we were in "Hot Pursuit." My ECM and radar warning gear had been lit up like a X-Mas tree, so I was vigilant in jinking in altitude and heading, while rolling and visually checking for missile plumes. During one check, I saw a missile clearing the haze and undercast below us. We were 25-26 thousand feet at the time and the undercast was broken around 13-15 thousand. Net result...not a lot of time to see and react to a Mach 4 missile. Fortunately I was looking at the right piece of sky as the missile cleared the clouds. I immediately saw it had constant bearing and big time decreasing range. I immediately rolled the Tomcat into the missile and pulled 8-10 G’s while deploying chaff to aid in breaking the missile's radar lock. The missile exploded just above and behind me. So a real pilot, an ace, in real life pulled f14 to 10g but, in a simulated tournament, people with f14 must keep eyes on g indicator to avoid to pass 7g. Please, forgive me but i think it is ridiculous.

I absolutely agree with you, the limit must be when the plane break just like in real life. During a real fighting the skill of a pilot is to pull his plane to the limit and not looking at g-limit. I really don't understand the ratio, why not, for example, limit engines to military power?

I understand and i really thank you :) and i'm really happy you are healing :)