Lava

Can't you watch your own track, then take control at the appropriate point? I forget if you can take control outside the training missions. Use time compression to get to where you want to be.

Viper, LOMAC and FC isn't too bad. Just install LOMAC, install FC, install the most recent patch for FC. That's what I did a couple weeks ago as per instructions on the forums.

Vega, thank you, that's exactly what I wanted to know! Hydraulics are isolated too, hmm, I'm going to have to start paying more attention to how the control surfaces in my virtual aircraft are actuated. Hollywood effects, that made me laugh :) Makes sense though. I figured the FFB was better suited for WWI and WWII planes with mechanical linkages. I'll pay a bit more attention to how the FFB differs from reality now ;) Another question for anyone who knows: How much recoil do you get (in real life) if you fire cannon in jet aircraft like an F-15 or 16? The A-10? In IL-2 with FFB the stick and airframe shudders pretty well if you open up with all guns/cannon. Of course, that's about 6 guns, mounted in the wings, with no modern dampening.

Vega, the G940 holds position just fine when trim is engaged. Whomever had that experience most likely had the new trimmer selected. There is an adjustment period as you get used to the different trimming, it's hard for me to pinpoint the difference but it's easy to end up trimmed well. Force Feedback is very useful in BS and in IL-2. Does force feedback work with force-sensing mechanisms as the Saitek stick seems to have? Is anyone actually sure it has FFB? Modern aircraft have isolated inputs, yes, but do they offer more resistance as you pull further on a stick? We have a lot of real pilots so I'm sure someone will enlighten me :) I'll have to hop in a 'modern' flight sim that isn't BS, but I believe that's almost all the force feedback does when in a modern sim - increase resistance the more the stick is moved. Perhaps other mechanisms aside from FFB would do just as well at that... in modern jet sims. (edit) After messing around a bit in Lock On, the force feedback vibrates when you're stalling, gets completely soft if you go vertical and lose all your airspeed, and bites harder if you do a high speed high G turn. Real sticks, as far as I know, usually incorporate a stick shaker for a stall warning. So I'll be really curious if this is FSSB and FF, or just FSSB.

I think Black Shark will always have a place as a SINGLE seat attack helo. Nothing like it when you just want to hop in and go. I'm not sure how well the AI would do in the (theoretical) Apache module. Also, from what I've read, a lot of people really want to shoot down A-10's with their Ka-50's and vice versa :) Back on topic: No, I won't have a problem with the controls. Might have to print out my HOTAS assignments to keep them clear. It'd be nice to have one of those fancy CH MFP displays for the controls that are individual to each cockpit.

I like your ideas, Blaster. It seems the FFB mechanism is tested along with the buttons in the Game Controller screen. Each button performs a distinct (but very energetic) action. The Mini calibration shows the same rounding phenomenon for me as well. I'd like to think it's because the sensor actually IS round, it sure feels that way. Mine is currently calibrated well with no drift, but I haven't tested it in BS. Try re-calibrating yours, and when it asks it to center, actually leave it alone and don't actively center it? I too noticed that pressing a button or manipulating the Shkval will cause you to move the joystick just a tiny bit. The stick's sensitive enough to pick that up! That's amazing. Never seen the need for a deadzone before, but hey, it's hard to complain that the stick is 'too' sensitive. "Wahhh it reads every single movement we make!" :) The POV/Hat commands seem useful, I'm not sure why I read someone complain about them elsewhere. The ones that Mark defined are actually great, except he has his set up precisely opposite how mine were set up, so I had to rearrange them. Nonetheless ;-) On the throttle, the top HAT controls shkval zoom and tv frame size. The bottom HAT/fake-mini controls weapons stations.

(edited completely) At first I couldn't replicate the crash bug. It doesn't occur while staring at the Logitech software itself. Then I crashed myself out of Firefox and Black Shark and managed to write down the error data. This happens when in another program and you press the shift (s5 on my joystick) and any throttle base button (haven't tested other throttle buttons). I'm running Vista x64. DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL crash in wxmlcore.sys (although google tells me it might be wmxlcore.sys ? Reluctant to crash my comp again to find out) I'm tempted to try reinstalling the xml packs, but I think this is a Logi software bug.

Wicked Penguin, this looks great. I'd been doing a startup resembling this already, but I kept missing items. I was thinking of making a super-short checklist and here you've gone and made a nicely formatted one already! Thank you very much, it's already printed ;-)

Guh. Before I crash myself again, let me post a quick reply. The software's great except for a new bug that was (probably) introduced when they extended the shift functionality. If I shift on the joystick and press a throttle button, my system completely crashes. A hard core BSoD related to WXml (dot something), and a reboot. It happens any time, in game or not. I crashed my computer testing that out in my last attempt at posting, sigh. I'm sure they'll fix it in 5.09, we just need to (politely!) get Mark's attention. I'm running Vista x64 bit. (edit) My other thoughts: The profile is recognized automatically, and every single command is programmed in. I LIKE it. That saves us tons of effort, collectively. Thank you Mark! There's a 'default' configuration with the profile, but I switched it over to my own config in about 8 minutes. Not too bad. Hardest part is scrolling through all those commands! It's got a limited go-to capability, if you type a letter it jumps to that spot in the alphabetical list. Also, the mini-stick gets calibrated and was, from my limited use, usable for the Shkval. Make sure you delete the Logitech profile's command for it and configure it in-game through the Axis Assignment. The only in-game configuration I am using right now is the Axis Assignment, everything else is Logi's software.

I learned with Saitek's software to stick with either in-game or the external configuration software, but not both. Probably this is a good approach here :) I did a pretty nice mapping within BS of the collective controls and the cyclic controls to the G940 throttle and stick. Went ahead and configured the 8 throttle base buttons as well, and I'm covered for probably 90% of cockpit functionality, startup excluded. I'm not going to develop the in-game config any more, instead I am waiting for 5.08 to come out. The software looks like the way to go, once the little shift problem is fixed. Plus, Logitech Mark is reading what seems like several simming forums and collecting feedback. It seems like we've got a really good chance of having any problems we find fixed by Logitech in a reasonable time frame! The printing feature for profiles is useful for me, so far. I printed several blank sheets of the throttle and stick and scribbled in potential layouts/commands. I've got a copy of the in-game configuration on paper so I can quickly replicate it in Logi's software. I'd love anyone's ideas on what the HOTAS mode switches could correspond to.

Mark, that is fantastic news! Thank you for letting us know about the upcoming changes. Flatlander, yes, I'm on that server occasionally, when I have time. About once every two days right now :)

Any problems I had with engines always turned out to be: Engine's Fuel Shutoff Valve off Engine's Engine Cutoff Valve off Rotorbrake engaged (only a problem with the first engine, generally)

Flyingaustrich - I do remember a step in installation which checked the internet, but I didn't pay too much attention beyond a sigh at the necessity. It might just be checking for updates, or it might be doing some unseen registering. I understand that the most secure PC is one that has no external connections, but how do you get patches or OS upgrades onto it? Do you burn them to CD/DVD?

I'm curious how other people are setting up the G940 for BS. Anyone else mapped the cyclic and collective controls pretty much as they are in reality? The physical layout is a little different but almost every function is bound to the appropriate controller for me. Searchlight control will probably end up on the cyclic though. Like I mentioned in my little review, I set the 8 throttle base buttons to reflect two cockpit panels, the left targeting panel and the autopilot panel (with in game shift). I still need a use for all the rotaries - one controls zooming, because Track IR doesn't let me use the full zoom range easily. Still scratching my head about the second throttle. Might it be possible to set them to each engine, when mode 2 or 3 is active, instead of collective? Although, the heli is meant to be flown on auto-throttle, I think, even when you've taken damage. So that's probably pointless. Mostly I'm just planning, because I don't think there's much point in doing anything when the software's not quite usable for us. Sticking with in-game configuration for now.

Gery, I haven't used the other high-end HOTAS systems, so I can't comment on the relative merits of a Cougar or whatnot. However, the G940's a lot better than my x45. Part of that is the utility and immersion of rudder pedals, though, which might be bought separately with your x52. (edit) Force feedback, however, really helps with the game and trim.

I too would like this profile that Logitech Mark has. However, I was enthusiastically entering commands when I ran into a fairly large flaw with the software: shift buttons. Right now a shift button is only recognised on the device the button is physically on. So, if I have S5 as a shift on the joystick, it only affects the buttons on the joystick, not the throttle or pedals. This means I'd need a button on the throttle for shifting all the throttle buttons as well, which is a waste of a perfectly good button. At least in-game configuration lets you set universal shifts. I'd love to use the modes etc but I can't see the point in entering all those commands if the shift feature isn't configured differently. Also, BS doesn't see the mode button in game. Funny how such a small thing like shift buttons can derail plans to use the software! Hopefully this will be fixable and Logitech can get on it. Also, if they'd make it clear where to download the most recent software, that'd be nice. I'm a bit worried about upgrading after reading the horror stories on the forums.

Hey all, I've been a simmer for 6 years, off and on. I've only owned a few joysticks: Saitek x45, and, years ago, a Saitek Cyborg something. Never used force feedback before. Never owned rudder pedals. I've always wanted a new joystick. I've also always wanted rudder pedals. Force feedback (FF) was just a bonus. So I sprung for the G940. Here are my thoughts. The G940 is a solid piece of work. It is high density, tough, THICK plastic. The FF has a -lot- of power behind it. It can make my flimsy Ikea desk shake alarmingly. When you test buttons in the calibration screen, it also sets off FF. My desk nearly was shaken apart during calibration. However, the joystick needs a little guide. There are a couple of physical dials I'm uncertain as to their exact purpose. They actually don't seem to DO anything resistance wise. One on the underside of the throttle, and one in between the pedals. I suspect they are supposed to change resistance but again, they don't seem to do anything. The stick is very very sensitive and easy to aim. I've had much better aiming with my rockets than with my x45. I'm impressed. Need to get used to rudder pedals though. They are already improving my flying, until I forget my feet are commanding my heli and I start spinning when I stretch my leg! The trim knobs have paint showing neutral position. I'll probably file a notch into the center point of each marker. Notches are all I want. I like the knobs where they are. In IL-2, that means I can KEEP a hand on the stick while reaching over with the throttle hand to tweak the trim. The knobs are of course pointless as trim in Black Shark. :) Need to think of a use for them. The throttle-joining device is just a fiddly button; the two throttles may sometimes register slightly different numbers because they can be at very slightly different positions even when joined together. I'm not sure what to do with the second throttle. It does nothing now. It's a bit awkward to have them separated, but I could make it work if there was a good use for it. Ideas? I like the FF trimming. On the advice of a pilot/server admin, -Merc- Cat, I'm trying out the 'normal' trimmer (no "central position trimmer mode"). I was used to the other trimmer with my x45. It feels about as accurate as my x45, that is, it pulls away a bit from the trim position, but autopilot compensates. I will keep trying the trimmer mode, I know people are curious about this. Any specific questions I can try to answer/experiment around. It's a lot easier to fly with a FF joystick. It turns the Black Shark into a different helicopter. I can feel the bite of any maneuvering. I'm not fighting the autopilot nearly as much, and I'd already gotten decent at working with the autopilot before this. Also, having the joystick reflect the trim position makes life much easier. I have a better feel for the chopper as a result of the FF. The only problem I'm having now is rudder trim. I forget that the trim hits the rudder too. I have to take my feet OFF the pedals, then trim, then back on with the pedals. Otherwise I get annoyed at the chopper spinning until I reset trim. We need FF on pedals now! :) Resetting trim is very easy. I just hold the joystick in the position it's ALREADY in, brace myself for the kick of the FF repositioning, then reset trim. The mini-joystick is very precise. It's smooth and does not feel like a normal HAT switch at all! I'd use it for the Shkval if it wasn't so HORRIBLY in need of calibration. Apparently the software update will let us calibrate it. The other mini on the throttle is really just a HAT switch, nothing like the first mini on the joystick. Someone mentioned the FF felt like it was 'grinding'. You can feel the gears of the motors mostly when the stick's out of game. I haven't noticed it more than once or twice in game. Also, someone mentioned their joystick was making 'arcing' sounds near center. Mine does that, rarely and very quietly. 'Arcing' is the wrong word, I think. I just move it around to stop it. Finally, I've read about the joystick base heating up a lot. Mine gets warm but not hot. (edit) Currently the software's doing well. No problems installing it. Logitech Mark is active on various forums and collects feedback for the releases, which is nice. Right now there's a bug which affects my platform (Vista x64) and causes crashes. Given our recent experience with rapid updates, this should be fixed shortly. (/edit) Having so many rotaries highlights fairly inconsequential limits in the game engine. You can't bind your HUD brightness or Helmet-Mounted-Display brightness directly to a rotary switch. Oh well. The buttons on the base of the throttle are very very handy, although the colors don't change and won't for a while. They make me want one of those 25-key programmable MFD things, because the 8 buttons are so darn useful! I map them to the left targeting panel, and with in-game shift, right autopilot panel. Roughly the same spatial layout as the real panels, it's wonderful. Pros: Very precise joystick Sturdy (so far) Force feedback greatly improves feel of flying Great Mini-Joystick on the main stick I am flying much better with this system so far Cons: Can feel FF gears if you concentrate (not an problem to me, far outweighed) Software is somewhat inadequate and could be developed more No notches in trim tabs or rotaries Mini-Joystick calibration is whacked and can't be fixed yet, and second Mini isn't a Mini at all Joystick makes little tiny ticking or arcing noises occasionally near center Geez. What a long post. Hi, by the way!

Any word on when the Logitech site might ship the G940's? It's a bit strange and frustrating that I could have ordered one from Amazon or other sites and already have it, yet Logitech's own site sits there at pre-order status.