kksnowbear

Actually it wasn't difficult or even expensive to do in my situation, and in fact I could *very* easily add a second radiator, both exhausting air (in fact I'm considering it). All while maintaining positive pressure, because that's also (in my book) a "near-imperative". And again, my current radiator both exhausts heated air and draws cooler, outside air. Just had to figure out how to set it up, way back in the planning stages of the build (which is unfortunately where the real failure is, most of the time). Part of the problem is people just accepting that it's too difficult or not worth it. They spend tons of money liquid cooling this and that, but then shrug at the notion of re-introducing the very heat they're spending time, money, and effort to deal with. They also fail to think through things, rush, and make mistakes. They heave money at the biggest, most expensive stuff available, even though that doesn't mean getting the best solution... How many people here actually have two radiators anyway? (And if they had that kind of resources, then they *really* should have no problem making sure it's done optimally). To be clear, "theory" in my case is practiced. I do 15-20 builds a year, in addition to friends and family, and have performed or overseen hundreds (maybe *thousands*) of PC builds over my career. This is not just theory. Far as testing goes, I don't know what data you're referring to, but I'd bet money there was a bit of a foregone conclusion in play, at least in some measure. The old "Well, we can't figure out how to solve it effectively, so we'll just decide it's not really that much of a problem". (See above re: expending money and effort, only to re-introduce the very thing you paid to overcome.) I'd prefer to see the testing data and results before concluding it's not that much of a problem, especially if it's not hard to overcome. We can agree to disagree about the location of the lines going to the radiator - again, I look at this as being declared acceptable due to lack of a better idea. No need to get upset at me just because I don't suffer that lack of a better idea. I've seen some references indicating the voids in mass-produced AIOs can go on 10%, and if you look at total volume of the pump, rad, and lines, I think you'd have to admit that it takes much less than 10% void to expose some part of the lines if they're mounted at the top of the system. So even if it's much less than 10% air, it's potentially enough that the lines aren't completely submerged internally. What's the basis for "extremely minimal risk"? (BTW how much is 'extremely minimal', anyway?) Your risk of being in a plane crash might be extremely minimal - but if it happens, your odds of walking off are "extremely bad". Everyone can do whatever they want, but let's not act as if there's no better way, simply because we couldn't think of it. As I said, I don't suggest it's worth it. People here spend thousands on CPUs and GPUs...but then we're going to entrust cooling to a system that's not optimal because some guy on Reddit said the effect is negligible? Hmm...yeah, that makes sense My advice is to find the better way. And, if it's approached properly, it's not necessarily hard or expensive. The part that amazes me is that people go bananas over tiny variation in frame rates (as one example) but then have no compunction whatsoever about dumping 100+F air back into their (sealed) case, while agonizing endlessly over 5c difference in temps. I said earlier I didn't want to get too far off the subject. Next thing you know, someone will be complaining about "derailing the thread" (which usually means someone doesn't like being proven wrong). What I'm saying pretty much speaks for itself - let the reader decide. The comments shown below are in the videos posted above, just so happens that the points illustrated show exactly what I'm saying. I don't always agree with GN, but the "proof of the pudding", as they say... you can clearly see the lines sucking air bubbles (and as the bottom pic shows, you have to factor in that liquid level in your sealed AIO could be even lower than these pics show)

Please see my edit, concerning top mount. The radiator *can* be mounted on top; I haven't said it shouldn't be. Sorry if this wasn't clear. EDIT: I just re-read the part where you said "on top the lines are above the pump"...kindly note I'm not saying the *lines* cannot be above the pump. I'm saying the point at which the lines connect to the rad should never be at the top of the (AIO) system. If you mount the rad at the top of the case (horizontally with respect to the orientation of a 'normal' desktop tower case), then the lines enter at the bottom of the rad - meaning there's more than enough liquid above that point to ensure the lines are always submerged. Any air void in the rad will naturally occupy the uppermost level of the rad itself, thus not affecting liquid pumping at all.

First of all, don't put a radiator on the front of the chassis. This avoids both the problem of where the lines go into the rad at, and heat being exhausted into the system. As for the bottom - I'm not sure if I understand correctly. You mean mounting the radiator at the bottom of the chassis (flat, horizontally) with intake through the bottom of the chassis itself? If so, it means that while you are getting cooler air directed at the rad, you're also still exhausting hot air into the system. Again - and this is my opinion but it's based on sound fact and physics, combined with decades of experience and formal training - radiators belong at the top or rear of a case. EDIT: I just re-read the part where you said "on top the lines are above the pump"...kindly note I'm not saying the *lines* cannot be above the pump. I'm saying the point at which the lines connect to the rad should never be at the top of the (AIO) system. If you mount the rad at the top of the case (horizontally with respect to the orientation of a 'normal' desktop tower case), then the lines enter at the bottom of the rad - meaning there's more than enough liquid above that point to ensure the lines are always submerged. Any air void in the rad will naturally occupy the uppermost level of the rad itself, thus not affecting liquid pumping at all.

Putting the radiator at the front will almost certainly mean exhausting hot air into the system, from the point which should be the primary intake for cool outside air. Not smart. Don't put it there, and preclude the problem. Can you provide a reference for how the radiators are "typically pretty well filled" (something authoritative, like a link from a manufacturer)? My comment has nothing to do with leakage. Anything that heats will expand. There has to be room for expansion, even in a sealed system. And yes, there is some area left empty because of manufacturing as well. As I said, the lines at the radiator *might* be submerged...I didn't say they are or are not, I said I wouldn't suggest that it's worth taking the chance. Radiators belong up top or in the back, exhausting heated air out of the system. Else you're defeating the purpose of (at least some part of) a cooling system. For the record, my own system has a 240mm radiator that exhausts at the top of the chassis, while also getting outside air (documented 20c cooler in load conditions) as it's intake. I'll leave it to the reader to figure that out, but that's how it is. The point is that just because manufacturers of cases and AIO coolers are constrained by a number of factors as to how they suggest their products are used, doesn't prevent the system builder from doing a better job with design and execution. One good step to start off with would be "Don't dump hot air back into the system." lol

Not to get too far off the subject here, just responding to the post with the videos about liquid cooler mounting: GNSteve and JayZ have both been wrong about plenty, and that's coming directly from someone with 40+ years of experience in computerized systems maintenance, formal training at the best US Navy school in Avionics (AVI-C7) and for actual Navy flight simulator maintenance (specifically, this includes liquid dynamics/hydraulics). Neither the lines going to the radiator nor the pump head assembly should be the highest point in the system. Not sure why the bottom picture would say "this is fine", because it's not. The hoses should never be at the top of the radiator. Arguably, there **might* be enough liquid at the top to submerge both lines inside and thus avoid air void binding...but I'd doubt it, and I wouldn't suggest it's worth taking the chance. Edit: The stupid thing is that, often, the actual instructions for mounting these things are all kinds of wrong. In most cases, they say to mount the unit so that outside air can be blown directly over the radiator. This will (almost invariably) lead to air - heated by whatever the liquid system is cooling - being forced *in* to the chassis. Last I checked, we want to remove heated air from the system, not introduce more. While there's little doubt that, it's better to use cooler air to blow at a radiator, this ceases to be a good idea the moment it results in dumping hot air into the box we're trying to cool.

Hi please check PMs, not sure if you're getting them. Trying to find out if you still want to sell the card. Last msg you were checking on shipping. Thanks

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Thank you for the mention; I am happy to be of help. Looking forward to seeing how the new setup does for you

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