Missile Evasion in F-15?

For months.. err a year I've been using a working (half of the time something like that..) missile evasion in the LOMAC F-15.

I dunno if this is really the best way but, when i know i'm being launched at,

I try to do a "Zig-zag" series of manuevres under high Gs.. similar to that "Snaking evasion in the default training tracks."

Usually works for Radar missiles but not much on IRs since they don't have launch warnings.. anyway it's another story..

I'm curious, How do the Eagle jocks of Lock On evade missiles?

We don't have the distance measuring SPO-15 of the Russian planes so how do you people out manuevre a missile?

There's no Missile evasion tracks for the F-15 anyway. (not even Landing tutorial~~)

Hoping for Ironhand's sequel but maybe he'd continue it by the time Flamming Cliffs 2 is out..

Standard Beam and Chaff. AMRAAMs are gonna get you if it was a good shot within the DLZ. Better trick, don't let them lock you up to begin with. Use terrain masking and such.

Ok... Let's see the basics on EVADING MISSILES.

MISSILE EVASION MANOEUVRES

"When your aircraft has been locked by an enemy aircraft, the LAUNCH notification will appear on the HUD. When this happens, use a CHAFF or FLARE to confuse the enemy missile and escape, or flya as fast as you can to avoid the enemy aircraft until the LAUNCH notification disappears from the HUD.

CHAFF / FLARE: When your aircraft has been locked or when a missile is flying towards you, fire a Chaff or Flare. Whether to use a Chaff or a Flare depends on your situation.

Chaff - To jam the enemy's RADAR lock.

Flare - To jam enemy's InfraRed lock."

"Typically, missile-evasion works like this:

A. A missile locks on to your aircraft and starts coming after you.

B. You fire a Chaff or Flare along the missile's line of sight.

C. When you do this, the missile perceives both your aircraft and the Chaff or Flare in its line of sight.

D. Take your aircraft away from the missile's line of sight by rolling until you aircraft is perpendicular to the missile's trajectory.

Take care to shoot the Flare along the missile's line of sight (the imaginary line linking your airdraft to the missile. Done properly, the situation at that point will determine whether the missile pursues your aircraft or the flare, so break away from the direction in which the missile is following.

Find out whether the enemy missile is guided by InfraRed (IR) or by active RADAR (RDR). This is how you can tell: if the word LAUNCH appears on your HUD, this means that a RADAR-guided missile has locked on to your aircraft. If an alarm is going off, but the word LAUNCH has not appeared, this means that an InfraRed-guided missile has locked on to your aircraft. In this case, do not use the afterburnerwhen you take evasive action."

In Energy Airforce Aim Strike - EVADING ATTACK - Page 11

That's all...

However some questions may rise, e.g.:

"Why to fly perpendicular to the missile's trajectory?"

Here we have to go a little bit technical about this question.

According to real military and other sources on missiles evasion:

"Russian missiles track in a very steep lead pursuit course. As being a rocket, the missile is conditioned to its manoeuvrering capability. Moreover, the missile has a "burn time", generally only few seconds, and during this burn time most missiles will begin a climb above their aimed target. This gives to the missile more energy after burning out. So the missile dives towards its target."

So, flying perpendicular (aircraft's 03:00/09:00 imaginary line) to missile's trajectory is very useful for two basic reasons:

1. You are able to confirm - visually - if the missile is really tracking you (if it is locked on to you, it will manoeuvre towards you).

2. Being perpendicular and deploying Chaff complicates the missile's target solution.

So, from this point on, the following lines should be added to EA/EAAS manuals about RDR MSL (RADAR-guided missiles):

- After positioning yourself perpendicular to the missile's trajectory, fire some Chaff...

- As the missile enter the 5 miles perimeter, or it seems to be "too close", roll inverted 180 degrees and pull on the you as hard as you can.

* Here - in real situation - it would be ideal to put your aircraft on its "corner speed", because it would put your aircraft in a dive to the ground in its shortest angle and maximum speed, helped by the gravity. making a half downwards loop (Split "S"). Fire Chaff as a hell.

This maneuver will force the missile to make a very hard turn to hit us. If properly done, the missile have no energy left to accomplish needed turn.

You evaded the missile and now you have another chance to fire your missiles towards the enemy aircraft.

Let's see how MIGs evade our missiles in EAAS...

Their basic manoeuver:

MIG Evasion 1

They release FLARE and slight move aside.

But they have more tricks: one of their complex Evasion...

MIG Evasion 2

They do a very steep turn and, doing so, they position themselves on our six! Bad karma!

In Energy Airforce Aim Strike = PS2?

1. You are able to confirm - visually - if the missile is really tracking you (if it is locked on to you, it will manoeuvre towards you).

I think this is Pauldy's real concern, he wants to be able to outmaneuver the missile in an F-15 while having a general idea of its range to him just like he would in a Russian bird using RWR to countdown range for ARH missiles, without labels. To do this gives him the ability to keep pressing rather than go defensive and surrender an advantage.

I would say one way would be timing, as soon as the missile goes active and you have the 'M' in your TEWS, now obviously your countdown begins but you must also take into account the range to the launching a/c, the further away the bandit is at launch the more time you should have once the missile goes active as the ARH will be travelling slower.

I wouldn't advise making this your 1st choice tactic as you'll end up dead just as often as surviving. Trying to outmaneuver missiles should be only when theres no other option or at extreme ranges. Hopefully when 2.0 comes out ARH's will reduce survivability when trying such audacious attacks.

We don't have the distance measuring SPO-15 of the Russian planes so how do you people out manuevre a missile?

 

There's no Missile evasion tracks for the F-15 anyway. (not even Landing tutorial~~)

It's not measuring distance but enemy's/missile's radar signal strength, to be precise. Knowing the maximum power output and a characteristics of a given radar, you could estimate range, based on actual strength of intercepted transmission and that's what the SPO does.

American planes' RWR has very similar capability. Notice, that radar icon on the display sometimes is closer to the center and sometimes closer to the edge (I think of the same radar type). The closer to the center, the stronger the signal intercepted - thus the source (like missile) is closer. Experiment with it :D

Also you don't need specific training tracks for F-15, as the same trick and techniques apply, as for the Russian jets. I've tried Ironhand's tips and moves in Lomac Su, MiG, F-15, A-10 and in Falcon 4AF and they work equally well with regards to all of the mentioned aircraft. With some practice, you could dodge even 2-3 missiles in a row, while being able to engage boogies all the time.

The key to success is proper spatial setup, correct speeed and precise timing. When all is set well and missile was shot from a distance, you have good chance of surviving. However, that's always a risky proposition, as you may not have enough time to maneuver and accelerate for a perfect evasive geometry or already be inside of a no-escape zone.

If you want realism, always try not to being fired upon in the first place -> planning and situational awareness are your best wingmans. I just can't wait for FC2 to see how it will change missile combat and evasion.

American planes' RWR has very similar capability. Notice, that radar icon on the display sometimes is closer to the center and sometimes closer to the edge (I think of the same radar type). The closer to the center, the stronger the signal intercepted - thus the source (like missile) is closer. Experiment with it :D

Its capability isn't thoroughly modeled. The TEWS should give you superior SA for evasion.

Regardless, you are correct. A bit of observing the RWR and some practiced timing will help.

Yes. It not only gives the all around indication and provides the more or less exact radar type, but also, if I remember correctly, the TEWS is made in such a way, that it indicates, if you are inside or outside enemy's engagement range. If a fighter or SAM icon is shown on the outer half of the display, you are reasonably safe. But any enemy radar icon, being shown inside inner half of the display means, that you are close to, or already are, being engaged. That's a very good moment to turn the tail and run like crazy or prepare to take evasive actions or try pincer/offset on the boogies.

No, this is a different RWR you're describing.

The TEWS will indicate threat range (that's right. Range), wether its jamming that threat, and a few other useful things. Mechanization for missile display is not known, though I've heard enough hints that it can give you a pretty good idea as to when you should be doing something about something.

Yes. It not only gives the all around indication and provides the more or less exact radar type, but also, if I remember correctly, the TEWS is made in such a way, that it indicates, if you are inside or outside enemy's engagement range. If a fighter or SAM icon is shown on the outer half of the display, you are reasonably safe. But any enemy radar icon, being shown inside inner half of the display means, that you are close to, or already are, being engaged. That's a very good moment to turn the tail and run like crazy or prepare to take evasive actions or try pincer/offset on the boogies.

I see. Yes, I was mainly thinking about known to me F-16 RWR display and I thought that was the same case for the F-15, because of the similar display screen.

Something like you described was used in Jane's Longbow 2 and Enemy Engaged, although I don't have a slightest clue, whether it was realistic or totally off (probably the later). However the principle was very similar, only the data was shown on the MFD. It was called ASE = aircraft survivability equipment and combined data from datalink, TADS, and RWR. It was also used for IR and radar jamming and could display missiles as small dots coming from the attacker the the own helo.

EDIT: I'vejust found it: http://www.terma.com/multimedia/1409_update_0704.pdf

Check on the part about F-16's Self Protection and Pilot's Situational Awareness.

SAR-AR-Missiles

BVR-Launch--Take the Missile for a ride head on do some low G turns then snap hard into a good launch pattern....Remember once the bandits missile come off the rail it is loosing power, depending on when you react and make it move for intercept points.

Med-Range launch--Cork screw then jink...look for smoke and vapor-chaff---and then pull up once then pull up hard--chaff..

Knife-fight-launch-- Chaff, pull hard-gs...and rudder into bandits 6 for the kill

IR-Launch

BVR--Just assume that there is an ET coming your way and set up for your next attack.

Med-Range launch--Look for smoke plume and assume there is an ET on the way...Flare..Flare..Flare..Flare.. set up for a kill run..

Knife-fight Launch....Flare Flare Flare...then pull hard...Rudder into bandits 6 for the kill...

TEWS measures the missile distance but instead of bars like in SPO, you have distance from the threat icon to TEWS center cross...it works fine.

When the threat is touching the center cross perimeter means that the missile (providing it's a AR in pitbull) is at 1km away from you. Touching te center cross perimeter is equal to 1 dark bar for SPO.

Consequentely, it is possible to estimate a pitbull missile in TEWS and therefore judging the best moment for a last ditch maneuver like High G break into the missile, barel roll or such moves...

I don't think this is correct, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the SPO-15 can't tell how far a missile is in real life.

You are right, in real life, the SPO-15 cannot be considered as a reliable source on bandit or missile distance. I've been told by people operating and flying the real thing that it can only be used as relative guide on enemy activity against you, and can in certain cases also interpret other radio(non-radar) signals as warnings and thus confuse you even more...

In Energy Airforce Aim Strike = PS2?

Yea I wanted to see who would say something, but it all looked good on the interwebs! LOL.

SAR-AR-Missiles

 

BVR-Launch--Take the Missile for a ride head on do some low G turns then snap hard into a good launch pattern....Remember once the bandits missile come off the rail it is loosing power, depending on when you react and make it move for intercept points.

 

Med-Range launch--Cork screw then jink...look for smoke and vapor-chaff---and then pull up once then pull up hard--chaff..

 

Knife-fight-launch-- Chaff, pull hard-gs...and rudder into bandits 6 for the kill

 

IR-Launch

 

BVR--Just assume that there is an ET coming your way and set up for your next attack.

 

Med-Range launch--Look for smoke plume and assume there is an ET on the way...Flare..Flare..Flare..Flare.. set up for a kill run..

 

Knife-fight Launch....Flare Flare Flare...then pull hard...Rudder into bandits 6 for the kill...

SAM Launch....Know your maps and SAM Sites....Same moves...

I never knew the "M" icon could move closer to the center of the TEWS..

It's hardly noticeable anyway..

Maybe because the icons were too small and hard to read just like the HUD pitch ladders...

I think Eagle Dynamics wants Eagle users to suffer... Joke~ peace!

That aside complications also start when you encounter SARH missiles.

As the threat Aircraft Icons don't move towards the center of the TEWS display.

How do you people avoid Semi Actives?

Btw what's a cork screw?

and yah i haven't really been barell rolling against a missile.

Also, attempting to notch a missile is also a good way to evade it right?

The dive down to lower altitude while in beam of F-pole/A-pole..

The one thing that helps most in missile evasion is experience.

Experience about how much time enemy missiles will take to reach you when the bandit that fired them is at a certain distance from you. For this, I suggest you practice offline against the AI. You can get to AI to fly any plane you want and get them to use any missile you want practice against. I also suggest you start flying with labels on so you get a better idea of what is happening. Also use Tacview to record ACMI's and review those.

Once you have an idea what is going on, you can start flying with labels off and use your experience from the previous flights to estimate when you really must defend. Though this applies mostly to a BVR scenario it is a good step of getting experience in missile behaviour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPk4l67PRqc

On this video you can clearly see how the <M> icon moves to the center of RWR display - that is you. Note the evasion geometry setup (30-40 deg off, nose 10 deg down, accelerating past supersonic) and the exact moment, when he's starting to break off (pulling 8,9 - 9,2g - that's stick all the way to the guts). Also notice, that he's always descending, which has three purposes:

- to accelerate faster (you want to fly fast and be able to put lots of g's in order to evade, also you want to slow down during the break as little as possible)

- to hide against ground clutter

- to drag the missile lower, into more dense air, which helps slowing it down even more (drag!), after it's rocket engine has ceased

Watch this video few times. Try not to remember it - try to understand the principles it illustrates. Watch other movies, look for some reading materials on the topic. Also get familiar with how missiles work, what are their strong and weak points.

Using this method, it is possible to score a gun kill against an enemy armed even with 4 missiles (two evaded and two never launched because of excessive angles/being too close). And all that can be achieved without jammer and chaffs! Real pilots asked about missile evasion, were little to no talkative :) All I could get was that there are indeed some methods and tricks like certain maneuvers and that's it. So I can't tell if it is realistic or not. It works in a sim, and if sim is supposed to be n% close to the reality, then I would assume, that the evasion we know is n% realistic.

As for the SARH missiles, you'll get launch warning, so you know it's coming. Put the missile on a beam and then wave/snake to bleed his energy and be on a lookout if it is still tracking you. If yes, then turn tail and dive or be prepared for a high-g break, depending on missile's suspected energy and other conditions.

Being shot at with IR missiles, is a clear indication, that you've already made terrible mistakes - failed to maintain SA, separation and perform BVR ;) Then, what's only left, are hard break, lots of flares and even more luck.

All that said, you need some knowledge beforehand, in order to plan appropriate training and know what to look for.

I must be doing the right path then. :)

I do dive to lower Altitude to drag the threat missile to the thicker air and also to notch it..

I also try to maintain certain speeds to be able to generate enough high Gs against the missile.

Although the "M" symbol going to the center of the TEWS is something i din knew.. I shall take that into consideration.

Oh yah, a bit off topic but what are the radar gimbal limits of the flyables in game?

You can very well determine this yourself. Engage and lock a bandit and start pointing your nose off him slowly. The moment you break the lock, you've reached it...

Although the "M" symbol going to the center of the TEWS is something i din knew.. I shall take that into consideration

Only works for active radar missiles (fox3) in terminal stage (pitbull).

Just retain a balance between your indications "RWR"s and your intuition...........Good pilots can 4 C the future and predict many out-comes in battle...

:)

Cool T is the Sith lord of Lockon :D

Cool T is the Sith lord of Lockon :D

LOL.......Remember as soon as the Missile comes of the rail/SAM-Site---Its loosing power, where "Some" jets have potential power, FUEL. ET/1/3rd.... OMG

More like when it's rocket motor stops, then it's losing power.

Sorry...As soon as the missile comes of the rail the Missile can be deadly for "X" amount of time; loosing power. Remember the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line....

When the missile leaves the rail it has a fixed amount of energy in the form of Kinetic Energy ( its initial velocity ) + Stored Chemical Energy ( the rocket fuel ) + Gravitational Potential Energy ( altitude ). The rocket motor burns converting the Stored Chemical Energy into Kinetic Energy and\or Gravitational Potential Energy

As its target, you need to bleed as much of that Kinetic energy as you can before it gets to you.

All the time the missile is tracking you it is using its total energy store ( Kinetic + Chemical + Gravity ) to alter its velocity. Remember, a change in direction is a change in velocity, even if the speed remains constant.

So turning away from the missile causes it to change direction, changing direction uses energy.

All the time the missile is in flight, it is having to overcome air resistance, i.e. drag. This also uses energy.

Causing the missile to change direction creates an Angle of Attack, increasing drag, using more energy. Coupled with this is the need for the missile to deflect its control surfaces, more drag, more energy used.

The less energy the missile has in the end game, the less able it is to alter its own velocity vector, i.e. maneuver close enough to get the kill

Since aircombat seems to demand proper energy management, I find it useful to be clear about what that energy exactly is.

I do have a couple of questions.

1. Ironhand advocates steering the missile into the lower atmosphere where the air is thicker, more drag, more energy used. Wouldn't it be better to make the missile climb causing it to convert its kinetic energy into gravitational energy?

2 Can anyone direct me to a useful set of Energy Management diagrams for the aircraft in Lock On?

Cheers,

Spide209