SU-27 vs Mig-29S

Recently I conducted a poll on which fighter aircraft most of the people fly. I see that more people have opted for SU-27 against Mig-29S (if we talk about Russian aircrafts only). I find it very difficult with SARH missiles that comes with SU-27 so I fly Mig-29S with ARH missiles. So what am I missing here? What are all the advantages of flying SU-27 against Mig-29S? Please help.:confused:

The Flanker has a better radar, more missiles, and more fuel.

In the absence of datalink to ground radar or AWACS, the Flanker has a much higher change of finding a target. More missiles and more fuel allow a player to stay in the air longer and run from danger more easily. Given the style of missions most commonly used online, these are valuable capabilities.

Also, while the MiG has R-77, R-27ET is fire and forget and stealthy.

The trick with flying the Su-27 against non Su-27's is to not attack from head on.

Flanker has low amount of GOOD missiles. What for many SARH missiles if they are poor?

Example you see target. You fire. Target goes down, right\left and highly possible your radar loses a lock. You wasted a missile and time. Flanker's benefits I see are fuel amount and better radar than MiG but still too poor to maintain stable lock.

Yes, R-27 is inferior to ARH missiles, but SARH doesn't mean you can't make a kill. Once on a whim I went with Sparrows over AMRAAM and got one of the best kill ratios in a single sitting I've ever achieved. Something like 5:1. With the Flanker, I've got some good runs by popping out from low altitude and launching ER near its NEZ on high flying targets not looking at me. And again, ET has its pros.

R-27ER launched from relatively close range is an effective weapon. Use the Flanker like it's meant to be use, with datalink replacing give away radar. I think pretty much every mission online should field EWR on the Red side.

Agree. ER launched to high target from low is good :D However not often you can be in that situation where nobody fires at you.

Another example flying at 10km alt and MiG at 10 km alt... ER range is about 60 km.... R-77 less. You fire ER faster but... he fires R-77 and can escape... you can't. You loose missile. that situations are often, at least I noticed.

About EWR - yes they should be on servers... don't know why 104th didn't add them... another servers too. I say many EWRs not 1-2, where blues could kill them very fast.

I think the real problem is when you fire R-27ER at a target 30 Kms away and if he turns Flanker loose radar lock and turns to EOS which makes R-27ER very less effective. I mean if the radar could have maintained the lock there could be a possibility that the missile may hit the target and this happens not only at 30 Kms it even happens at 50 Kms some times. Well thats what is modeled in the game so right or wrong we have to bare it and FC2 will/may never have any patch in future that too has to be kept in mind.

Regarding Su-27 Vs Mig-29 except fuel and radar both are the same. You can file 2 R-27ER both will miss but you will be able to keep enemy defensive and you can have last shot with r-27ET a near guaranteed kill. In Mig-29 if the opponent runs you cannot chase or you will surely run out of fuel and if you stop your chase he will have a fairly large chance of going away and turning back at you. Well its all about pilot's skills plane hardly matters much, I guess some 20%.

Biggest difference accrue around 25 km.

When that close, the airplane that fires active missile doesn't need to guide it more then 2 sec. When missile goes active the Pilot is able to execute any defending maneuvers.

The airplane that fires SARH missile from same range will have to guide it to impact, witch means that it cant maneuver out of its radar gimbals and speed. Very dangerous situation if you have missiles fly in you direction :)

One thing to remember thou is that in FC2 Russian SARH missiles are faster then Aim-120/77, that can play to your advantage.

Yes, R-27 is inferior to ARH missiles, but SARH doesn't mean you can't make a kill. Once on a whim I went with Sparrows over AMRAAM and got one of the best kill ratios in a single sitting I've ever achieved. Something like 5:1. With the Flanker, I've got some good runs by popping out from low altitude and launching ER near its NEZ on high flying targets not looking at me. And again, ET has its pros.

 

R-27ER launched from relatively close range is an effective weapon. Use the Flanker like it's meant to be use, with datalink replacing give away radar. I think pretty much every mission online should field EWR on the Red side.

I think you haven't flown much FC2 over FC1. R-27ET is basically a short range weapon now, as it should be.

R-27ET is basically a short range weapon now, as it should be.

Well, that depends on how hot you are :P

^^ some of you guys are doing it all wrong. The ER should be fired well before your opponent fires his missile. That's how its meant to played.

Bob.. if he goes low and turns, then you have all the cards. He's finished if you don't make a mistake. And actives can be trashed very easily IF you give yourself the range and maintain sufficient altitude for manouvering... and that's why you fire the ER early. To give you the range.

I find the biggest fault with pilots is thinking too much in a level plane and flying accordingly. The flankers tactics is meant to use the vertical aswell.

I think you haven't flown much FC2 over FC1. R-27ET is basically a short range weapon now, as it should be.

I've never played FC1. I'm well aware of the ET's range limitations.

^^ some of you guys are doing it all wrong. The ER should be fired well before your opponent fires his missile. That's how its meant to played.

At times, yes I can see one going that route. But always? No. The thing going for a long range shot is that is limits the difference between ARH and SARH. However I find that if you do try to shoot first, there is a good chance that your target will just turn and run. This applies to AIM-120 and R-77 as well. Now if it's just you and the bandit alone, this isn't too bad. Guiding R-27 on a fleeing target with other bandits around is not a good idea though.

And blue side would always have an AWACS flying.

I have no problem with that. It already seems to be the case for both Red and Blue. However, a EWR network has slightly different properties compared to AWACS, mostly due to the fact that you have a lot of radars looking at things from a lot of angles.

^^ some of you guys are doing it all wrong. The ER should be fired well before your opponent fires his missile. That's how its meant to played.

 

Bob.. if he goes low and turns, then you have all the cards. He's finished if you don't make a mistake. And actives can be trashed very easily IF you give yourself the range and maintain sufficient altitude for manouvering... and that's why you fire the ER early. To give you the range.

 

I find the biggest fault with pilots is thinking too much in a level plane and flying accordingly. The flankers tactics is meant to use the vertical aswell.

Dead on.

Force the opponent out of his game, make him play on your field rather than you playing on his field, and the worst that can happen is both of you go home without a kill. Don't press, don't go head on just because your RWR is silent, don't use up your altitude too early and dive for the hills, and so on...

there is a good chance that your target will just turn and run.

Exactly.. very often this is what you want. Denial of airspace. IRl this could be mission accomplished on a sortie. You don't have to score that kill always to win the situation.

EDIT: As for the Mig, it still is the fastest at accelerating.

Exactly.. very often this is what you want. Denial of airspace. IRl this could be mission accomplished on a sortie. You don't have to score that kill always to win the situation.

This is true. But there are a few ways to reply to your statement.

Given how online is, I don't think you can always equate repelling the enemy to a kill.

If your strikers are calling you for back up, sure making the other guy RTB is equally as good as landing ER's in his cockpit.

If two guys meet randomly somewhere just flying around with no objects, I have to admit, to me it doesn't feel like I've accomplished much unless I've got a kill. I know what I'm saying might sound somewhat hypocritical, but then again the tactics forced by defensive/offensive requirements in a real mission really add to the feel of an online (or offline) mission. If they aren't there, sometimes it's hard to get into it, at least for me.

Yes, it is up to the player to decide how he will play the mission. But it's a lot easy to choose one way or another depending on mission set up.

Now if it's just you and the bandit alone, this isn't too bad. Guiding R-27 on a fleeing target with other bandits around is not a good idea though.

There is also that to consider. One on one its fine, but if you want to keep the pressure up to really make the guy leave, you would have to deal with his wing mates. If they all have ARH's, that will make things complicated unless you are very well coordinated with your flight [if you have one].

Well when I get killed its usually because of 3 or more missiles coming from different directions and for me short range SARH is the worst because I can't see how far it is. And the worst case is getting shot by a SAM because people just run and run after first shot has been fired.I find very less people who try to turn or even turn and engage even though they are being chased. Heres where tactics does matter running is what I never liked.

Biggest difference accrue around 25 km.

 

When that close, the airplane that fires active missile doesn't need to guide it more then 2 sec. When missile goes active the Pilot is able to execute any defending maneuvers.

 

The airplane that fires SARH missile from same range will have to guide it to impact, witch means that it cant maneuver out of its radar gimbals and speed. Very dangerous situation if you have missiles fly in you direction :)

 

One thing to remember thou is that in FC2 Russian SARH missiles are faster then Aim-120/77, that can play to your advantage.

Does R-77 require to maintain lock or it is truly fire and forget in LO (fire and immadiaetly run back)? I noticed MiGs fire andrun like "run forest run"...

Well, that depends on how hot you are :P

Yeah :D

^^ some of you guys are doing it all wrong. The ER should be fired well before your opponent fires his missile. That's how its meant to played.

Problem is when you fire missile and you loose lock due to poor radar or his movements (often TWS lock lost in F-15 even due to slight bugged target moves...). You loose missile and time. He is closer and can fire active.

Bob.. if he goes low and turns, then you have all the cards. He's finished if you don't make a mistake. And actives can be trashed very easily IF you give yourself the range and maintain sufficient altitude for manouvering... and that's why you fire the ER early. To give you the range.

Sometimes he is dead sometimes not... simply Ru radar loses lock and back to IRST for second then back to radar and that all time omg :joystick:

At 25 km distance firing ER is not so good idea..... (if he fired active earlier or in that same time).

And blue side would always have an AWACS flying.

Yes they should be there... but IMHO missions need to be re-maked. EWR should be as standard as standard is that F-15 doesn't move even from barracks without WAX =).

I hope a patch would get released that adds Su-27SM which is capable of carrying R-77 missiles.

I hope a patch would get released that adds Su-27SM which is capable of carrying R-77 missiles.

... I hope F-15C will have fully functional MPCD ... :smilewink:

Does R-77 require to maintain lock or it is truly fire and forget in LO (fire and immadiaetly run back)?

I think you have to guess the time when missile (R-77) goes active. -need confirmation

I have no problem with that. It already seems to be the case for both Red and Blue. However, a EWR network has slightly different properties compared to AWACS, mostly due to the fact that you have a lot of radars looking at things from a lot of angles.

But don't forget: An EWR is stationed on the ground. AWACS is normally flying in about 26.000 feet (8.000m).

So the AWACS can detect on level, high and down - addicted to the terrain. Your EWR is blind on low-level or have just a very short detection range. And to detect high, the bandits must fly very high, that the EWR can look over the hilltops.

b2t: I agree with Riptide. If you shoot first, equal with which aircraft, you are in the offensive position - normally the better position What you're doing with this position, is another thing. :smilewink:

I prefer the press-tactic. Always hot, always dangerous and straight aggressive.

kind regards,

Fire

^^ some of you guys are doing it all wrong. The ER should be fired well before your opponent fires his missile. That's how its meant to played.

 

Bob.. if he goes low and turns, then you have all the cards. He's finished if you don't make a mistake. And actives can be trashed very easily IF you give yourself the range and maintain sufficient altitude for manouvering... and that's why you fire the ER early. To give you the range.

 

I find the biggest fault with pilots is thinking too much in a level plane and flying accordingly. The flankers tactics is meant to use the vertical aswell.

Dead on.

 

Force the opponent out of his game, make him play on your field rather than you playing on his field, and the worst that can happen is both of you go home without a kill. Don't press, don't go head on just because your RWR is silent, don't use up your altitude too early and dive for the hills, and so on...

I dont agree. Of course this might be your methods, but for me firing far in the Su-27 only prompts being shot in the face and increases the chance the lock is broken wasting all the missiles. Whenever I fly Russian aircraft I always try to fire close at 25km preferably undetected. On head to head scenarios the R-27ER will fly faster but it doesn't meant it will reach your F-15 or mig target first. If your opponent is half competent he will time the fight and go F pole and invert course as soon as missile goes active. You got no choice but to keep your radar gimbals aimed at it. In this situation his AIM-120 will reach you sooner, while yours might even be out of reach.

I dont agree. Of course this might be your methods, but for me firing far in the Su-27 only prompts being shot in the face and increases the chance the lock is broken wasting all the missiles. Whenever I fly Russian aircraft I always try to fire close at 25km preferably undetected. On head to head scenarios the R-27ER will fly faster but it doesn't meant it will reach your F-15 or mig target first. If your opponent is half competent he will time the fight and go F pole and invert course as soon as missile goes active. You got no choice but to keep your radar gimbals aimed at it. In this situation his AIM-120 will reach you sooner, while yours might even be out of reach.

Pilotasso, I have to agree with RIPTIDE. The general rule is that who fires first has the advantage.

Remember that A-A tactics are not written based on a 1vs1 scenario. If that was the case, whoever had the best missiles, would won every time.

But if I'm supported by another guy, then it's another ball game.

It's funny, because in LockOn, people usually get fired upon but they keep coming into arms way just to fire an active. The weird thing, is that they do have the advantage doing these tactics, because the R-27s will miss most of the times, even if the lock is kept on the bandit. :wallbash:

In my post the rule of thumb for flying Su-27 is also firing first. ;) just not head to head.

When your flying with active missiles however this rule can be bent to some extent.

I dont agree. Of course this might be your methods, but for me firing far in the Su-27 only prompts being shot in the face and increases the chance the lock is broken wasting all the missiles. Whenever I fly Russian aircraft I always try to fire close at 25km preferably undetected. On head to head scenarios the R-27ER will fly faster but it doesn't meant it will reach your F-15 or mig target first. If your opponent is half competent he will time the fight and go F pole and invert course as soon as missile goes active. You got no choice but to keep your radar gimbals aimed at it. In this situation his AIM-120 will reach you sooner, while yours might even be out of reach.

:) At 25km as your 1st shot, this will only work against a poor pilot. If the pilot sees you in this time and fires an active he has very little guidance to do except fire and turn. If he turns he will still be outside the ER range. And you give yourself very little range to manoeuvre to avoid his very fast active. Its not advisable.

Also "wasting all your missiles" is not really relevant because you only need to fire one on the 1st instance. People also forget that there is a vicious reacquire lock capability with the ER. You can drop lock for quite a while and then reacquire it when aspect or distance permits. And if the target is still within ER seeker gimbals it can be a unpleasant surprise.

He will be dodging and soon be dead, trying a return shot in this situation will end up with his suicide.