Analysis Results: KA-50 and WH HOTAS

I'm a former aircraft engineer for the U.S. military, and currently a Data Intelligence Architect. I didn't like the default mapping of the Warthog HOTAS for Blackshark, so I've completely analyzed and formulated what I believe to be a superior mapping.

Enjoy:

Diagram is missing:

Pinky Switch FWD - Nose Light

Pinky Switch AFT - Anti-Col Light

I realize this is an ancient thread but I am curious about this HOTAS config.

StrongHarm shows the Shkval Slew functions on both the Cyclic and the Throttle. The cyclic has "digital" and the Throttle has "analog".

I am confused about this. First of all, what is the difference between the functionality of digital versus analog when it comes to the Shkval Slew (4 directions) ? Is there a noticeable difference ?

Secondly, why have this function on both ? Isn't having it on one good enough ? Is there an actual advantage ?

I'm asking because I am sincerely interested AND I might employ some of your setup when my new X-55 Rhino H.O.T.A.S. arrives (within the next week or so).

PS> Does the Landing Light aka Spot Light actual Pan or Slew as indicated by the Options settings i.e. "Like a Spot Light" should !.

Analog control is an axis, so you can control how fast it moves. Digital is a button press, so on each button press the shkval will move a tad.

So for searching in general you would use the analog controls, then for fine adjustments you use the digital inputs.

.

 

StrongHarm shows the Shkval Slew functions on both the Cyclic and the Throttle. The cyclic has "digital" and the Throttle has "analog".

 

I am confused about this.

this my profile:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/348101/

Nuova Versione 3.0

 

Profile Black Shark 2 KA-50 V 3.00

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/348101/

 

New Version 3.0, Profile for DCS BLACK SHARK KA50

upload file .LUA Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog, MFD Thrustmaster Left/Right and Rudder Saitek.

 

STEP 1:

Go to:

C:\Users\Username\Saved Games\DCS\Config\Input\ka-50\joystick

and delete the file .DIFF.LUA

 

STEP 2

Go to:

C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircrafts\Ka-50\Cockpit\Scripts\Devices_specs

 

open the file WEAPON SYSTEM and edit:

use_single_trigger = true --true (default is FALSE)

 

STEP 3:

Go To:

C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircrafts\Ka-50\Input\ka-50\joystick

Copy files JOYSTICK.LUA//THROTTLE.LUA//RUDDER.LUA

 

Finished...

 

Joystick Axis Y & X:

Deadzone= 0.1

Curvature= 0.10

 

Rudder Axis:

Deadzone= 0.1

Curvature= 0.5

 

Profile by Aviators

Thanks my friend Flanker

http://www.amvi.it

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/348101/

I'm a former aircraft engineer for the U.S. military, and currently a Data Intelligence Architect. I didn't like the default mapping of the Warthog HOTAS for Blackshark, so I've completely analyzed and formulated what I believe to be a superior mapping.

 

Enjoy:

 

And what should this superior setup be good for?.... Holiday flight?

The A/A Hardpoint select is that useless that it hurts, and thats just one example. 1/2 of the setup is useless in combat where you nearly never have time to switch around inside the Cockpit.

You can setup the DL system instead of the ABRIS as a another example.

The UV-26 can easily be one button also.

And why do you need the reset trim, autodescent and Throttle as keybindings?

ISE

I am also wondering why we need two triggers. We have to select the gun either way with a separate button, why not have both, Weapon Release and Fire Cannon on the same trigger.

Especially when it can come in quit handy in the Ka-50 to have your thumb available for other stuff while firing weapons (designating targets, etc.).

The A/A Hardpoint select is that useless that it hurts, and thats just one example.

My understanding is that isn't A/A hardpoint selection, but a double config for A/A mode for some reason (unless it was meant that there would be such switch that would allow to select R-73 missiles on wingtips).

1/2 of the setup is useless in combat where you nearly never have time to switch around inside the Cockpit.

HOTAS isn't just for combat, it is for flying as well on good time. Like example managing ABRIS to zoom in/out map can be very valuable task while hovering behind cover.

You can setup the DL system instead of the ABRIS as a another example.

It would be better to be just included, not to replace ABRIS functions. I have both and I use often the PRTz than ABRIS but controlling ABRIS is important feature.

The UV-26 can easily be one button also.

Actually UV-26 is better to be have at least three, Start, Stop and Side. As it is better to program it before entering hostile area if wanted, so you need to start and stop the programming to save flares. On sudden moments you can launch just one by at the time as well. And the side selection is better to do for improved change to avoid missile by launching flares on the other side than the threat, so you are not behind the flare when the missile pass it. But you can still choose quickly which side you flare, to save flares and have different ways.

And why do you need the reset trim, autodescent and Throttle as keybindings?

Sometimes trimmer needs to be reseted, it gets weird for longer periods and instead fighting against AP or solving why holding trimmer down doesn't command AP correctly, you just reset trimmer and trim again.

Autodescent is a one way switch, what you need to hold down while in hovering mode, in combat situations you fly behind cover and where you are in hover and you want to peak now and then over the cover and then get back down. Using automatic descent mode is very valuable to avoid getting to vortex ring or avoid moving collective from otherwise perfect position.

And in combat situation when you are hit and other engine shuts down, you need quickly to cut off valve, open mixed fuel crossfeed valve and raise RPM of working engine to 100%, then do other emergency tasks for engine.

What I spotted on that setup as problematic (for my style) is that I could not hold Trim down, designate target and fire cannon same time. That would make cannon runs in close range or in fast situations impossible, unless you hit the Flight Director mode On.

id just put the trim and trim reset buttons on the joystick and not the throttle, and put the zoom in zoom out and gate adjustment on one POV, that way you could free up your thumb to do the locking on and stuff.

You could also replace the eject button with something more useful, and put the eject button somewhere on the base.

also the A/A mode can be useful since it automatically engages the AA mode for the vikhr.

The A/A Hardpoint select is that useless that it hurts, and thats just one example. 1/2 of the setup is useless in combat where you nearly never have time to switch around inside the Cockpit.

I use every single command, personally. If you don't use AA mode against other helos you're probably not going to hit them. Same with moving vehicles. The reason I've keyed commands that you 'nearly never use in combat' is because frankly they are useful.. but you don't use them because they're too hard 'for you' to activate during combat. Consider that if you were in a real Blackshark you would know where the switches are without looking at them (trust me, I could do a complete APU startup of an F14 without looking at a single switch when I was in the military).

You can setup the DL system instead of the ABRIS as a another example.

I use Voice Activated Commands for my Data Link and all wingman/tower interaction. Sorry..

The ABRIS controls are extremely useful. I often mark enemy weapon range thresholds on the ABRIS before IP, without ever taking my hands of stick and throttle.. and a huge number of other useful tasks. Do a search for my post on the ABRIS to learn more about utilizing the ABRIS to it's fullest.

The UV-26 can easily be one button also.

I use different profiles depending on whether I'm just dropping flares as a deterrent or dropping to actually spoof. You should too..

And why do you need the reset trim, autodescent and Throttle as keybindings?

If you're not using trim reset, there's a whole world of helo piloting you're missing out on. If your question is: 'why is trim reset on the throttle?'... It's there because that's the easiest key to hold down (which is why the US Military made it the 'mic switch' in the A-10C).. and I hold trim reset while maneuvering, as do most people. I do also just turn heading AP off instead if I'll be maneuvering for a very long period of time.

CONCLUSION:

There are some things missing from this setup if you don't use Voice Activated Commands (VAC) or a TrackIR, granted. But do I hope that you can see that it provides more of a 'Hands on throttle and stick' .. you know, HOTAS.. than the default DCS KA50, Warthog profile.

In my OP I should have stated 'superior mapping for advanced pilots'.. sorry about that.

The A/A Hardpoint select is that useless that it hurts, and thats just one example. 1/2 of the setup is useless in combat where you nearly never have time to switch around inside the Cockpit.

I use every single command, personally. If you don't use AA mode against other helos you're probably not going to hit them. Same with moving vehicles. The reason I've keyed commands that you 'nearly never use in combat' is because frankly they are useful.. but you don't use them because they're too hard 'for you' to activate during combat. Consider that if you were in a real Blackshark you would know where the switches are without looking at them (trust me, I could do a complete APU startup of an F14 without looking at a single switch when I was in the military).

 

You can setup the DL system instead of the ABRIS as a another example.

I use Voice Activated Commands for my Data Link and all wingman/tower interaction. Sorry..

The ABRIS controls are extremely useful. I often mark enemy weapon range thresholds on the ABRIS before IP, without ever taking my hands of stick and throttle.. and a huge number of other useful tasks. Do a search for my post on the ABRIS to learn more about utilizing the ABRIS to it's fullest.

 

The UV-26 can easily be one button also.

I use different profiles depending on whether I'm just dropping flares as a deterrent or dropping to actually spoof. You should too..

 

And why do you need the reset trim, autodescent and Throttle as keybindings?

If you're not using trim reset, there's a whole world of helo piloting you're missing out on. If your question is: 'why is trim reset on the throttle?'... It's there because that's the easiest key to hold down (which is why the US Military made it the 'mic switch' in the A-10C).. and I hold trim reset while maneuvering, as do most people. I do also just turn heading AP off instead if I'll be maneuvering for a very long period of time.

 

CONCLUSION:

There are some things missing from this setup if you don't use Voice Activated Commands (VAC) or a TrackIR, granted. But do I hope that you can see that it provides more of a 'Hands on throttle and stick' .. you know, HOTAS.. than the default DCS KA50, Warthog profile.

 

In my OP I should have stated 'superior mapping for advanced pilots'.. sorry about that.

I think you are overrating yourself here just a little.:music_whistling:

Depressing the trim button already "resets" the trim: AP does not add input and thus does not interfere with your maneuvering and also disables the force trim (maybe not so relevant for non-FFB users). I don't have the feeling that I miss out anything in this regard here - depress trim, maneuver, release trim.

Afaik the "reset trim" function does not exist on the real aircraft, it is more a conviniece function for us sim pilots. I never found any situation where I whished I could actually reset the trim (i.e. = re-trim to the default stick center) as it makes the helo usually react rather violently. But I am using the G940 FFB. But for non-FFB sticks it might be helpful if you managed to cumulate "trim errors" because of the necessity to re-center all controls each time you trim the aircraft. But as said earlier, to use it as "temporary disable the trim" sounds a bit strange to me.

edit:

Maybe you are interested in some suggestion for improvement - at least this is what works very well for me:

- trim button, easily reachable (I use the thumb button on the G940 stick - the CMS button on the Warthog might not be ideal, though. So, the PPT on the throttle might be good, too, yes.)

- instead of trim reset set up for that button together with a modifier, I have mapped "FD on/off". So I can switch to FD mode quickly if I am about to maneuver more extensively - without even have to hold down the button the whole time.

Consider that if you were in a real Blackshark you would know where the switches are without looking at them (trust me, I could do a complete APU startup of an F14 without looking at a single switch when I was in the military).

I can see where the functionality of the Warthog stick is tempting to map all of the commands to but the real Black Shark was a late 80's early 90's design and the number of HOTAS functions on the real helo are very limited. I don't care much for the Black Shark and prefer to fly it how it is so while flying the helo I would rather just flip switches in the cockpit. I can see the utility of the setup though and it gives me some ideas for other aircraft I do like that I have a need to optimize. Thanks for the post. Oh, and just so you know, the Navy F-14's never had an APU. Grumman had it as an option for the airframe but the Navy never bought it.

Best approach to map your game hotas is to look first on the real/sim stick and collective controls layout and try to imitate that. Then you should go for some fight, and if you have some more spare buttons, you can map to them some other useful controls like ripple lenght, auto turn to target, some radio commands for the wingman and so on.

Oh, and just so you know, the Navy F-14's never had an APU. Grumman had it as an option for the airframe but the Navy never bought it.

Busted! :lol:

The A/A Hardpoint select is that useless that it hurts, and thats just one example. 1/2 of the setup is useless in combat where you nearly never have time to switch around inside the Cockpit.

I use every single command, personally. If you don't use AA mode against other helos you're probably not going to hit them. Same with moving vehicles. The reason I've keyed commands that you 'nearly never use in combat' is because frankly they are useful.. but you don't use them because they're too hard 'for you' to activate during combat. Consider that if you were in a real Blackshark you would know where the switches are without looking at them (trust me, I could do a complete APU startup of an F14 without looking at a single switch when I was in the military).

 

Fri13 is Correct you are talking about the A/A mode or A/A Ho (Head on) mode buttons.

The A/A Hardpoint Button is on the left of the storesjettison buttons in the middle konsole below the HUD and without function..... so this is why i was saying that this is useless. Its a typo from your side.

 

You can setup the DL system instead of the ABRIS as a another example.

I use Voice Activated Commands for my Data Link and all wingman/tower interaction. Sorry..

The ABRIS controls are extremely useful. I often mark enemy weapon range thresholds on the ABRIS before IP, without ever taking my hands of stick and throttle.. and a huge number of other useful tasks. Do a search for my post on the ABRIS to learn more about utilizing the ABRIS to it's fullest.

 

98% of the Pilots do not use Voice commands so this is why DL system should be prefered.

 

The UV-26 can easily be one button also.

I use different profiles depending on whether I'm just dropping flares as a deterrent or dropping to actually spoof. You should too..

 

Singleplayer tactics in MP this will highlight your position.

 

And why do you need the reset trim, autodescent and Throttle as keybindings?

If you're not using trim reset, there's a whole world of helo piloting you're missing out on. If your question is: 'why is trim reset on the throttle?'... It's there because that's the easiest key to hold down (which is why the US Military made it the 'mic switch' in the A-10C).. and I hold trim reset while maneuvering, as do most people. I do also just turn heading AP off instead if I'll be maneuvering for a very long period of time.

 

Trim reset is not trim! Like written above.

 

CONCLUSION:

There are some things missing from this setup if you don't use Voice Activated Commands (VAC) or a TrackIR, granted. But do I hope that you can see that it provides more of a 'Hands on throttle and stick' .. you know, HOTAS.. than the default DCS KA50, Warthog profile.

 

In my OP I should have stated 'superior mapping for advanced pilots'.. sorry about that.

Useless + Arrogant

I fly the KA-50 now for 5 years nearly Daily and i personaly dont let tell me from anybody how good or bad my KA-50 skill is. Also not when he is the King of the whole World.

New pilots please try to create you own mapping on your stick or HOTAS. You know best what you want and need yourself. Also notice that this mapping will change during your KA-50 practice and progress.

:book:

I agree that it's best to program or setup a Hotas to our own preference. It just makes finding things easier .. faster learning curve.

The more we can work with our own setup, the more we each know what works for us and what doesn't. And we can take our time finding what should be changed.

That said, I started with the Actual Hotas setup as a reference and have looked at other user's setups. Their experience is valuable to me. People that have flown the Ka-Fitty for a while have specific (and often common) setups for a reason. I like to try those out before getting too differently setup myself.

That said, I still have lots of practice and customizing to do yet. But I'm finding my new X-55 to be a Really Huge Improvement over my last Hotas (barring a few weird hiccups which I think I have almost eliminated thanks to the kind help from others on this Forum).

StrongHarm - I couldn't find your Abris post

Do a search for my post on the ABRIS to learn more about utilizing the ABRIS to it's fullest.

I just tried searching for your post re: Abriss using the Advanced Search ... searched for "Abris" and Posted By StrongHarm without any success.

Would you mind posting a Link here OR even PM'ing the link to me ?

I'm also interested in learning more about setting up Voice Commands.

I watched a video about that quite some time ago. I wish I could find that link again too. I think that would be a great way to add immersion to this Sim as well as efficiency.

I stand corrected.. it was when I was on E-2C that I had to do ramp APU startups. It was over 20 years ago and I have a fondness for the Tomcat.. so I guess I associate memories with it by default.

I can see where the functionality of the Warthog stick is tempting to map all of the commands to but the real Black Shark was a late 80's early 90's design and the number of HOTAS functions on the real helo are very limited. I don't care much for the Black Shark and prefer to fly it how it is so while flying the helo I would rather just flip switches in the cockpit. I can see the utility of the setup though and it gives me some ideas for other aircraft I do like that I have a need to optimize. Thanks for the post. Oh, and just so you know, the Navy F-14's never had an APU. Grumman had it as an option for the airframe but the Navy never bought it.

You can learn more about the trim

Here's my VAC post. This should get you started with a decent profile.. and before people start screaming about the fact that it's not perfected to their preference, let me provide a disclaimer: I spend a good deal of time analyzing and capturing the most efficient procedures and control methods FOR ME, and then I share them with the community because I like to contribute. If you don't like it simply don't use it.. but don't begrudge me for attempting to contribute.

I don't see the very thorough post on the ABRIS I was referring to either.. maybe I posted it in the Testers Forum.

Here's some of the key points from another very early post I wrote on the subject in 2010:

I've been playing for less than a month now. I received 90% of my ABRIS information from the manual, and 10% from the forums. I respectfully disagree with Prophet4no1 that most of it useless. I've found that the only area that hasn't been useful to me is the GNSS sub-mode. I did study up on it and found RAIM thresholds interesting. I asked in the forums and found that no one bothers with studying and altering the RAIM before flight. Be aware, that the more you use the ABRIS the more use you find for it. I nearly dismissed it as a TomTom on steroids, and I'm glad I didn't. I've found my study of the navigation systems not only interesting, but empowering.

 

For instance, VNAV will save you a lot of flight time, fuel, and headaches particularly in mountainous regions. Remember that the shortest route from pointA to pointB is a straight line... but you're in the air so there is more than one vector.. turn it on it's side. Are you traveling in a straight line from pointA(current altitude) to pointB(designated ceiling)?

 

The info sub-mode provides more than just info on a fixed point such as an airfield. I like to use it to find elevation of a given area. During my mission planning I'll zoom in on the target area and check the elevation. I'll then find multiple points that provide good cover from an elevated position and mark them with small red lines 6k out (ingress thresholds). This not only provides me with superior ingress points convergent to my target area, but also with better situational awareness before I even leave the tarmac.

 

One aspect of the ABRIS that prevents me from mastering it is the saving of routes and data. I believe I've followed the instructions in the manual very closely, but haven't had success.

 

One aspect from the manual that didn't give me a clear picture was translating coords from the ABRIS to the PVI, but there are many helpful people on these forums. Here's a post I wrote yesterday in a related thread that summarizes what I've learned from them on the subject:

 

So if you have the coords 44'45"46 in the ABRIS, you would type 044458 into the PVI

 

Why did the 46 minutes in the coords turn to an 8? Let's look at the numbers (0)-(44)-(45)-( 8 )

0

= Prefix to indentify the coord as positive

(not a number translated form the ABRIS coords)

44

= Longitude

45

= Latitude

8

= Which is

46

minutes, divided by 60

(which is 0.76)

, rounded to the nearest tenth

( 76 rounds up to

8

)

Rather than using the ERBL, I like to insert a new waypoint or map point into the ABRIS as a reference. At first this took much longer than doing a quick ERBL or INFO, but now I'm so used to it that it takes no time. Plus you get perm intel on the map point like coords, time and bearing to target, elevation, range, etc. Take note that if you create a map point in the ABRIS, then translate it to a PVI NAV/TGT, when you select that NAV/TGT and uncage your shkval (turn on TV) your tracking cursor on your targeting system automatically moves to that NAV/TGT.

 

A practical use of this would be something I experienced yesterday. There was a SAM site equipped with a radar truck, so he was able to track, target, and eliminate me very quickly. I was able to identify the origin of the missile trail coming from a bend in the road before I ejected. Once I got in a new bird I pulled up my ABRIS and found that bend in the road on the map. I plotted course waypoints (manual p231) into the ABRIS that would take me 5km from the SAM site, but behind a mountain. I marked the SAM site on the ABRIS as an INFO type map point named 'SAM' (man p253). I saved the ABRIS info and made it active. I then pulled up the info point named 'SAM' and translated the coords into the PVI (man p319). I followed my ABRIS waypoints to the ingress area behind the mountain, initiated a hover, activated NAV/TGT 2, uncaged my Shkval, and as soon as I crested the mountain I was viewing the SAM site zoomed in on my targeting system. I was able to get a lock and release within seconds.

 

 

Don't give up on the ABRIS and other systems in the Ka50, Bee_Sting. There's a lot of knowledge that you don't need to make things blow up.. but I have a hunch you might be someone who wants to blow things up with style.

 

Afaik the "reset trim" function does not exist on the real aircraft, it is more a conviniece function for us sim pilots. I never found any situation where I whished I could actually reset the trim (i.e. = re-trim to the default stick center) as it makes the helo usually react rather violently. But I am using the G940 FFB. But for non-FFB sticks it might be helpful if you managed to cumulate "trim errors" because of the necessity to re-center all controls each time you trim the aircraft. But as said earlier, to use it as "temporary disable the trim" sounds a bit strange to me.

I use G940 too and I need to reset trim now and then as after some time and maneuvers, the virtual control centerpoint is in joystick limits to get a leveled flight. But resetting trim and then applying new trim brings the leveled flight almost to center point. I don't naturally use any curves etc to mess axis.

And I know real stick doesn't have a reset trim, but in KA-50 it is required to be.

But to use it temporarily disable AP channels or avoid using AP FD mode (or just hold and press trim) it is wrong.

I use G940 too and I need to reset trim now and then as after some time and maneuvers, the virtual control centerpoint is in joystick limits to get a leveled flight. But resetting trim and then applying new trim brings the leveled flight almost to center point. I don't naturally use any curves etc to mess axis.

 

And I know real stick doesn't have a reset trim, but in KA-50 it is required to be.

 

But to use it temporarily disable AP channels or avoid using AP FD mode (or just hold and press trim) it is wrong.

I never experienced this issue - not with the G940. I just trim when the helo is in the desired attitude and that's it. But maybe I am misunderstanding you ... what exactly do you mean with "brings leveled flight to center point"? You have forward speed and have your stick centered?? That would be weired ... if that is the case, what are you settings under Options for FFB and Central Position Trimmer Mode?

:). This is a nice appeal to authority in the first post BUT you must think in Russian.

Most important thing to do in a Blackshark is to NOT burn the laser out. Laser standby button cannot be on a hat switch. You must drill a new hole in your throttle and add a red button just for this.

Everything else is fine.

I never experienced this issue - not with the G940. I just trim when the helo is in the desired attitude and that's it. But maybe I am misunderstanding you ... what exactly do you mean with "brings leveled flight to center point"? You have forward speed and have your stick centered?? That would be weired ... if that is the case, what are you settings under Options for FFB and Central Position Trimmer Mode?

Example, I get off from ramp and I level up to 220km/h speed with single trimmer release and stick is forward little bit as should.

After maneuvers, time passed by etc without real COG point moving around (releasing weapons, consuming fuel as much) my required trimmer mode is now almost on maximal joystick movement position or further from where it would be in same leveled flight profile (same altitude, speed, direction) and only reseting trimmer allows me to reposition the stick to place where it originally was in same flight profile.

The trimmer sets cyclic center to the position where the trimmer was released, so FFB stick new center is at new physical position. The virtual controls OSD confirms that stick is moving correctly but KA-50 just requires now and then trimming reset, as not even just holding trimmer down does set the trimmer correctly.

It has always been so, after few reinstall, reconfiguration etc. Only happening with a KA-50 in DCS.

And as said, not configured anything to confuse the FFB, although long time ago tried different axis settings from defaults.

:). This is a nice appeal to authority in the first post BUT you must think in Russian.

 

Most important thing to do in a Blackshark is to NOT burn the laser out. Laser standby button cannot be on a hat switch. You must drill a new hole in your throttle and add a red button just for this.

 

Everything else is fine.

It is actually good to be, so laser can be turn off so it can't be in mistake fired to calculate distance or try to get a Shkval lock on target. This allows minimize the burn possibility to very low and get even 36 Vikhr fired without burning laser when being very careful.