Thick8 Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 Hi Guys, I'm getting ready to start. Bydling's 256 switch board is on the way and I have purchased several appropiate toggles (locking and standard). Planning on using Reactorone's excellent panel drawings. I have been thwarted a couple of times. First strike: We have a CamMaster 4x8 CNC machine a the school where I teach but the computer to run it can not be found. $1200 to purchase the board and software needed to make it work. It's in next year's budget. Second strike: We also have 2 PlasmaCAM cutters. The one I can convert to cut wood and plastic I won't be allowed to convert. The other would need an upgrade to make work. $3000 Third time up to bat: just found out we have a laser cutter that can cut and etch plastic. I haven't put my eyes on it yet to make sure it can cut out the size pieces I need yet, though I'm hopeful. There is also a program at the school that does screen printing. don't know if that would be a better option to laser etching. I have a few questions. 1. Can I use metal for the bottom layer? (PlasmaCAM) 2. Should I use a translucent white or clear acrylic for the top and middle layers? 3. What kind of paint should I use for the top? Should it be an acrylic paint? 4. What are the thicknesses of the layers? Thanks for any help you can provide. John All of my posted work, ideas and contributions are licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International (CC BY-NC 4.0,) which precludes commercial use but encourages sharing and building on for non-commercial purposes, ©John Muldoon
Mr_Burns Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 Sounds a bit steep for board and software - have you looked on ebay - there is a texas intruments based board and psu for less than $100 and a pci card is about $12. Dont know if you have to run the manufacturers controll software or you can rewire the motors to your own? But I know f=all about CNC - I just built my own and think i am a genious even though I havnt managed to make a panel yet!!
Thick8 Posted February 2, 2014 Author Posted February 2, 2014 I won't be allowed to modify the PlasmaCAM to the point that it is not able to be used for its intended purpose. I've drawn up a router mount for it and will cut out tomorrow. I've been reading in the cnczone.com forum that someone is able to use his machine with the same software level as me to do wood/plastic work. I've reached out to him but haven't heard back yet. John Anyone have any answers to my initial questions? John All of my posted work, ideas and contributions are licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International (CC BY-NC 4.0,) which precludes commercial use but encourages sharing and building on for non-commercial purposes, ©John Muldoon
Mike Powell Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) People typically make panels from materials they are comfortable working with. Since you have access to a wide variety of tools you may benefit from reading through some of the military specifications which the original manufacturers referenced. Many of these Mil Spec docs are available on line for free. For example: MIL-C-6781B Control Panel: Aircraft Equipment, Rack or Panel Mounted MIL-C-81774A Panel Design MS-25212 Control Panel, Console Type, Aircraft Equipment, Basic Dimensions MS-25213 Control Panel, Aircraft Equipment, Typical Installation MIL-P-7788F Panels, Information, Integrally Lighted MIL-M-18012B Markings for Aircrew Displays In answer to your questions, It's really up to you. However.... 1 - Flight rated panels have an aluminum plate under the plastic light plate. 2 - Flight rated light plates are to the best of my knowledge clear; however white light diffusing has been successfully used 3 - Use a paint designed to stick to the plastic you decide to use. Flight rated panels have a few coats of white to support internal reflections. This is covered by the color coat. There may be a clear matte coat over that. 4 - IIRC the metal layer is 0.063" and the light plate is typically 0.230". Check the Mil Spec docs. Dims are in there somewhere. Edited February 2, 2014 by Mike Powell Mike Powell www.mikesflightdeck.com www.mikesflightdeckbooks.com
Thick8 Posted February 3, 2014 Author Posted February 3, 2014 Thanks Mike. I got a look at the laser cutter this afternoon. WOW. The teacher who teaches the that class was cutting out vinyl 2 color nameplates when I was there. The ones that are black on top with a white base. She does nice work. she said she'd be willing to cut panels to order so she can build up her program's student activity fund. I will probably go with an aluminum bottom, Clear middle plate and a white translucent top plate topcoated with black paint. I'm thinking the white translucent will diffuse the backlighting. If I'm wrong I hope someone will correct me before the cutting starts. I still haven't rulled out not backlighting as it seems like it's kind of a pain to do so. I'm going to look to see if there is a better (cheaper, easier) solution. Maybe all three layers clear with a couple green florecent tubes below all the panels. On a different note I just received my B256A13 controller from Bydling today. gonna go wire some up some diodes and switches and play around with it a little. heres a couple of pics of the machines I'll be using. All of my posted work, ideas and contributions are licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International (CC BY-NC 4.0,) which precludes commercial use but encourages sharing and building on for non-commercial purposes, ©John Muldoon
Mike Powell Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Also, if you haven't seen this thread on real panels: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=112210 It's definitely worth the time reading. Mike Powell www.mikesflightdeck.com www.mikesflightdeckbooks.com
Thick8 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Posted February 4, 2014 Also, if you haven't seen this thread on real panels: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=112210 It's definitely worth the time reading. Good read. Thanks for the link. I was just thinking. I bought a BUNCH of LED Christmas lightstrings at the after Christmas sale. $2.50 per string. I accidently knocked the "bulb" end of one and there was a tiny square LED in there. I have hundreds of those things. Hmmm... John All of my posted work, ideas and contributions are licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International (CC BY-NC 4.0,) which precludes commercial use but encourages sharing and building on for non-commercial purposes, ©John Muldoon
Thick8 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Posted February 4, 2014 What do you think of Reactorone's panels? As they are PDF files I can import them directly into CorelDraw (the laser uses this) as vector graphics. I was thinking they look pretty sweet. I'm still torn as whether or not to go to the trouble of backlighting the panels. I do fly alot in the evening after the lights are out but I may just use some green strip LEDs on the lip of of Dimebugs cockpit. All of my posted work, ideas and contributions are licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International (CC BY-NC 4.0,) which precludes commercial use but encourages sharing and building on for non-commercial purposes, ©John Muldoon
southernrebel Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 hay thick: i got a copy of reactornes panels. pluse others that have been made, also got A-4 panels from the old m series. I think you live close and if you want one or two so you can see how they where made you are more than welcome to them.
Thick8 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Posted February 5, 2014 Hey Rebel, I'm in Sumter. About a 2 hour ride as long as it's not rush hour around Ashley Phosphate. did you have the the panels cut? Did you backlight them? Getting a look at them would be cool. I'm heavily commited at work for the next couple of Saturdays. We're having the 40th aniversary celebration at the technology center where I teach. I'm in charge of the bouncy house, yea... But after that I can come down. John All of my posted work, ideas and contributions are licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International (CC BY-NC 4.0,) which precludes commercial use but encourages sharing and building on for non-commercial purposes, ©John Muldoon
southernrebel Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 these are real A-4 panels that i got before i left the Navy. Was lucky to have a job that had lots of that stuff. years ago. wanted to build a pit but real life intervened.lol
Deadman Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 I think he made the panels the way he wanted them and what he was happy with. He did an excellent job for the information available at the time. I don't think he made the panels to fit dzus rail ( his spacing on the width and height are both off )all so on his back panel width and height. So your unable to possibly use real panels that you can find on the net currently IFF,TACAN ,a HARS that looks close,Antenna select for as little as $50 each and blank fill plates for as little as $10.00 for 4, Witch is a quite reasonable price. There is plenty of information on back lighting panel here and on the net you really should think about doing it But there are flood and cockpit light used in the A-10 so you could all ways do that. https://forum.dcs.world/topic/133818-deadmans-cockpit-base-plans/#comment-133824 CNCs and Laser engravers are great but they can't do squat with out a precise set of plans.
Thick8 Posted February 9, 2014 Author Posted February 9, 2014 After looking through the build threads I decided that having a perfect replica is not necessary. so I decided to use the Salomon Computers A-10C graphics as the guide for my panels. I've converted in to standard American measurement and used the MS33558 font. the holes are sized to accept the switches and dials being used. I kept everything 1/8" reference so that if someone wants to cut them out with regular hand tools they can. The laser cutter I'm using uses CorelDRAW X3 so I've created the drawing using that. Here is the sample NAV panel that I will be cutting out tomorrow. All of my posted work, ideas and contributions are licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International (CC BY-NC 4.0,) which precludes commercial use but encourages sharing and building on for non-commercial purposes, ©John Muldoon
Deadman Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Hi just out of curosity what is the "Salomon Computers A-10C graphics"? With all of the work your putting in to the panels why are you not making the back light ring for the knob area? you might as well add the arrow for the STEER toggle and the on off labels on the CDU and EGI toggle cutouts. Great looking work thanks for posting and good luck on your build. After looking through the build threads I decided that having a perfect replica is not necessary. so I decided to use the Salomon Computers A-10C graphics as the guide for my panels. I've converted in to standard American measurement and used the MS33558 font. the holes are sized to accept the switches and dials being used. I kept everything 1/8" reference so that if someone wants to cut them out with regular hand tools they can. The laser cutter I'm using uses CorelDRAW X3 so I've created the drawing using that. Here is the sample NAV panel that I will be cutting out tomorrow. https://forum.dcs.world/topic/133818-deadmans-cockpit-base-plans/#comment-133824 CNCs and Laser engravers are great but they can't do squat with out a precise set of plans.
Thick8 Posted February 9, 2014 Author Posted February 9, 2014 Oops, forgot about the on off labels. Light rings. So that's the reason for the clear area around the dials and switches. Thanks for that heads up. Here's the graphics. i just sliced it up and used each panel for the reference. It's the only complete scaled(ish?) picture I've been able to find of the A10-C. All of my posted work, ideas and contributions are licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International (CC BY-NC 4.0,) which precludes commercial use but encourages sharing and building on for non-commercial purposes, ©John Muldoon
Duckling Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Haven't seen that URL before. Thanks for sharing and editing it together. Cheers Gus - - - -
Deadman Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Interesting graphic The rings around the rotary knobs are usually left white but rarely they are clear I am working on drawing the TACAN panel now. The area to back light the mode select is clear possibly do to the unusual type of knob there. The areas around the toggle switches are normally painted black to prevent light leaks Oops, forgot about the on off labels. Light rings. So that's the reason for the clear area around the dials and switches. Thanks for that heads up. Here's the graphics. i just sliced it up and used each panel for the reference. It's the only complete scaled(ish?) picture I've been able to find of the A10-C. https://forum.dcs.world/topic/133818-deadmans-cockpit-base-plans/#comment-133824 CNCs and Laser engravers are great but they can't do squat with out a precise set of plans.
Thick8 Posted February 11, 2014 Author Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) I cut one just to get a look at it. The font is wrong. IT is installing the MS55338 font tomorrow. This is cut on blue over white vinyl. I plan on cutting them on black over clear acrylic or black over translucent white acrylic. It's only $14 for a 12x24 piece. The top color had a nice texture to it as well. I'm going to go with a clear middle plate and metal bottom plate. I'm going to draw all of the panels up this week then cut them out (hopefully) next week. With any luck I'll start assembling them by the end of the month. If anyone wants a set when i'm finished I can sell them pretty cheap as all the proceeds with go to the school. I'm thinking 2 to 3 times the material cost. I just found glow in the dark core laserable sheet at our supplier's website. i just gotta try it. Who know, backlight might have just been made easy... Edited February 11, 2014 by Thick8 All of my posted work, ideas and contributions are licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International (CC BY-NC 4.0,) which precludes commercial use but encourages sharing and building on for non-commercial purposes, ©John Muldoon
southernrebel Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 count me in. by the time you get yours done you'll be an expert. can't wait to see some of the others. Bill
Thick8 Posted February 12, 2014 Author Posted February 12, 2014 I took a good look at Reactorone's panels. The dimensions are draw in metric but they are no more than .040" off overall and he used Dimebugs frame. So I decided to use his for my build. I transformed all of the top plates so I can cut them with the laser. So now I have them saved as Corel, DXF, and PDF files. I will do the same with the middle and bottom plates. I live in SC and school wil be out till Monday so I should be ready to start cutting next week. John All of my posted work, ideas and contributions are licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International (CC BY-NC 4.0,) which precludes commercial use but encourages sharing and building on for non-commercial purposes, ©John Muldoon
Deadman Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Hi thick 8 I know your not making a replica but Rector ones drawing may be only 0.04 off on the width but on some of the heights he is off more than .70 of an inch. IE the AN/ARC 186 size is on the net for a closer fit if you want Edited February 13, 2014 by Deadman spelling https://forum.dcs.world/topic/133818-deadmans-cockpit-base-plans/#comment-133824 CNCs and Laser engravers are great but they can't do squat with out a precise set of plans.
Thick8 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Posted February 13, 2014 That's the thing DM. I looked for the radio you mentioned for a half an hour on both Google and Bing. I even found the DOD manual on the radio and not once did I find mention of its size. I did find the dimensions for the complete panel mount unit which is different than the panel/remote combo that is used in the A-10C. I'm a teacher. It's about an 80 hour a week job so my time is very limited. I would rather fly than build, but would still like to have some reasonable facsimile to the aircraft I fly. If it's a few inches longer that an actual A-10C, then I have to be OK with that if I'm going to get the opportunity to enjoy my creation. I'm also pretty anal. My wife says that if something can be done, I can always find a way to over-do it. but in my 50 years I've had to learn to temper that to a somewhat rational level. Such is my bane in life; having to accept less than perfection from myself and others. Oh well... All of my posted work, ideas and contributions are licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International (CC BY-NC 4.0,) which precludes commercial use but encourages sharing and building on for non-commercial purposes, ©John Muldoon
Direwolf5 Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Here you go, I searched using AN/ARC 86 Size and found this page: http://www.sea-avionics.com/lc/cart.php?target=productDetails&model=RT-1300/ARC-186+V&substring&mode=research PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS Panel R/T RT-1299 (V) Dimensions: 9.15" D x 5.75" W x 4.875" H Weight (Max): 7.25 lbs Remote R/T RT-1300 Dimensions: 9.5" D x 5" W x 4.75" H Weight (Max): 7 lbs Remote Control C-10604, 05, 06 Dimensions: 4.98" D x 5.75" W x 2.25" H Weight (Max): 2.5 lbs From Measuring the fold-out image in my copy of TO 1A-10C-1 and scaling the width to height I get 2.25 for the panel height. Deadman can confirm the measurement as he has the real panels. So it would be the 3rd entry in the list. Also you can estimate panel heights by looking at how many DZUS fasteners high they are then multiplying by 0.375, for example the radio is 6 DZUS high x 0.375 = 2.25 inches. Direwolf5 Edited February 14, 2014 by Direwolf5 Typo
Deadman Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 I really hope this does not come across wrong. So I will just say if you have found the Dimensions: 4.98" D x 5.75" W x 2.25" H. you might knock off 0.01 for a bit of gap between the panels I did a goggle search for AN/ARC 186 Dimensions the same address as Direwolf5 found popped right up on Google. Now it sounds like you giving me a lecture on how much you work and have no time well I am sorry about that and I am trying to help you get a reasonable facsimile. I really don't want to see any one waist their time.making a set of panels that add over an inch may just mess some thing up . Well I was just trying to help out a new member of the form and it seams i have perhaps just pissed you off so sorry about that and I will just get back to casting. https://forum.dcs.world/topic/133818-deadmans-cockpit-base-plans/#comment-133824 CNCs and Laser engravers are great but they can't do squat with out a precise set of plans.
Thick8 Posted February 14, 2014 Author Posted February 14, 2014 I really hope this does not come across wrong. So I will just say if you have found the Dimensions: 4.98" D x 5.75" W x 2.25" H. you might knock off 0.01 for a bit of gap between the panels I did a goggle search for AN/ARC 186 Dimensions the same address as Direwolf5 found popped right up on Google. Now it sounds like you giving me a lecture on how much you work and have no time well I am sorry about that and I am trying to help you get a reasonable facsimile. I really don't want to see any one waist their time.making a set of panels that add over an inch may just mess some thing up . Well I was just trying to help out a new member of the form and it seems i have perhaps just pissed you off so sorry about that and I will just get back to casting. No lecture intended; nor am I even a little bit pissed. It was merely an explanation as to why I don't have the time to research this as heavily as some others here might. I did a search again on the radio and it was the the 6th entry down, don't know how I missed it. One of the problems that I ran into was that I don't know the alpha-numeric designators of any of the panels. Makes searching for them difficult. I guess I could search for the nomenclature first and them search for the panels then search for the dimensions but that takes (as I'm sure you know) a significant amount of time. I've noticed many of the builders here have been working on their pits for years. I want mine done in a few months at most. All of my posted work, ideas and contributions are licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International (CC BY-NC 4.0,) which precludes commercial use but encourages sharing and building on for non-commercial purposes, ©John Muldoon
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