DCS FC3 LİMİTED AFM?

[theropod]

According to my old thread:http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=119863

i would like to know if we use afm or limited afm

i noticed that both aircrafts(a-10a and su-25 for now)stability agumentation systems always on and this makes aircrafts very stable on flight. there is no deep stalls ,no spins or dangerous flight conditions. and this situation makes me to ask devs which flight model we have.

upcoming su-27 and f-15 have very specific control agumentation systems and i am worried about to able to use that feature?

[Dell_Murrey-RUS]

I don't know a-10a/c, just don't fly them.

But Su-25 and Su-25T with they AFM have very good flight model on normal flight mode and critical mode.

If you read Flight Manual for Su-25, you can see that model give us maximum accuracy.

See this video of simple and hard aerobatic program of Su-25T (on line record from trek).

 

[GGTharos]

Yo-Yo already responded. What makes you think either of these aircraft would experience a 'deep stall'?

 

i noticed that both aircrafts(a-10a and su-25 for now)stability agumentation systems always on and this makes aircrafts very stable on flight. there is no deep stalls ,no spins or dangerous flight conditions. and this situation makes me to ask devs which flight model we have.

upcoming su-27 and f-15 have very specific control agumentation systems and i am worried about to able to use that feature?

[theropod]

especially i am asking for a-10a and a-10c afm. i coudnt compare them because i have only fc3 addon, thats why i asked to other users who can compare those aircrafts. i found

those kind of videos lead me to ask you.

on 30 august 2013 update:A-10A: Added Stability Augmentation System (SAS). maybe this feature prevents fc3 a-10a from entering the spin. is it alwasy turned on by default?

and the track file which was recorded with a-10c didnt show me spin altough they have same afm with a-10a.

Edited February 5, 2014 by theropod

[GGTharos]

The SAS is always on in A-10A I imagine, but it's not going to prevent you from entering those spins.

[theropod]

The SAS is always on in A-10A I imagine, but it's not going to prevent you from entering those spins.

but why a-10a users cant enter spin like a-10c? a-10c users noticed that both aircrafts dont have same flight Dynamics.

[Exorcet]

I don't notice much difference between the A and C. They're practically impossible to tell apart.

[Frostie]

but why a-10a users cant enter spin like a-10c? a-10c users noticed that both aircrafts dont have same flight Dynamics.

I've just tried this out now and was able to recreate those flat spins in an A-10A.

To flat spin in an A-10A and A-10C it has to be forced ie. using either stick, rudder, throttle or all. You need to apply rudder as if trying to keep the nose straight when the stall begins that creates the spin, the way to get out of such flat spins is to chop throttle and centre the stick, if you do this when entering the stall it will easily recover.

 

Both of the videos had either stick, rudder or throttle input it wasn't until they centred the stick did it recover.

[theropod]

I've just tried this out now and was able to recreate those flat spins in an A-10A.

To flat spin in an A-10A and A-10C it has to be forced ie. using either stick, rudder, throttle or all. You need to apply rudder as if trying to keep the nose straight when the stall begins that creates the spin, the way to get out of such flat spins is to chop throttle and centre the stick, if you do this when entering the stall it will easily recover.

Both of the videos had either stick, rudder or throttle input it wasn't until they centred the stick did it recover.

I don't notice much difference between the A and C. They're practically impossible to tell apart.

at first i didnt ask how to recover,i asked how to enter spin continiously

i tried everything ,also i support with engines to both directions to enter spin deeper but a-10a correct it self immediately. there is nothing to recover!

on videos it is different.

can you record a track file with a-10a?

because the track with a-10c didnt show me the spin happening.

Edited February 6, 2014 by theropod

[Faith]

If you don't want the SAS system to be on in the A-10 just get the A-10C module and turn the system off...

[theropod]

If you don't want the SAS system to be on in the A-10 just get the A-10C module and turn the system off...

why should i buy? this is about afm and related flight control systems.

a-10a is first production of a-10 series. maybe my expectation is different?

a-10a entered sevice on 1970s but a-10c entered service on 2005

i think there could be difference, especially aircraft control systems

Edited February 6, 2014 by theropod

[Frostie]

A-10C is an A-10A with updated avionic suite. A-10C is not a new aircraft it is just an A-10A that has been given an overhaul.

 

You've already been told by the developers in the other thread that the AFM is the same one that is used for A-10C, why would they waste time making a seperate AFM for what is basically the same aircraft.

[theropod]

A-10C is an A-10A with updated avionic suite. A-10C is not a new aircraft it is just an A-10A that has been given an overhaul.

 

You've already been told by the developers in the other thread that the AFM is the same one that is used for A-10C, why would they waste time making a seperate AFM for what is basically the same aircraft.

then they could add a button for flight control systems to enable or disable like a-10c. especially systems like sas. because all of them related to afm.

Edited February 6, 2014 by theropod

[sobek]

then they could add a button for flight control systems to enable or disable like a-10c. especially systems like sas. because all of them related to afm.

 

Well the thing is that control over these systems is a DCS level aircraft feature.

[theropod]

Well the thing is that control over these systems is a DCS level aircraft feature.

than this is limited afm? and these results make me think about not to able to perform cobra maneuver or spins etc... with su-27? and correct me if i am wrong, its all about aoa pitch limiter button wich is part of these kind of system on su-27 and same with f-15 which is part of control agumentation system.

Edited February 6, 2014 by theropod

[Irregular programming]

than this is limited afm?

 

It's the same flight model so no.

[winchesterdelta1]

I think he does not understand the difference between AFM and Full clickable cockpit

The A-10A has only Full AFM. And the A-10C has Full AFM and a Fully useable avionics suit with clickable cockpit.

Please correct me if i'm wrong.

The SU-27 and F-15 have no AFM yet (No clickable cockpit and no fully useable avionics only AFM). But they are working on AFM for both of those planes. When thats done you can do your super duper cobra maneuvre. Please do that Cobra maneuver when i'm playing online with you. Makes you a more easy target.

Edited February 6, 2014 by winchesterdelta1

[theropod]

It's the same flight model so no.

same flight model without flight control sytems means afm? which level afm than?

I think he does not understand the difference between AFM and Full clickable cockpit

The A-10A has only Full AFM. And the A-10C has Full AFM and a Fully useable avionics suit with clickable cockpit.

Please correct me if i'm wrong.

The SU-27 and F-15 have no AFM yet (No clickable cockpit and no fully useable avionics only AFM). But they are working on AFM for both of those planes. When thats done you can do your super duper cobra maneuvre. Please do that Cobra maneuver when i'm playing online with you. Makes you a more easy target.

i think you misunderstood! i know the detail difference with dcs level and fc3 level aircrafts but remember old lockon series which has worse detailed than now. there was pughacev cobra button we can control. this is a solution that they can do the same with upcoming su-27 and f-15 projects

i dont want 3 channel(pitch ,yaw ,roll) control but a contol button should have to perform these manuevres because it is all about both aircrafts flight stability limits.

[winchesterdelta1]

I think i did misunderstood you. But now i seriously don't know what you really want. The pughacev cobra will be available in with the updated AFM SU-27. But that was already known.

But i don't know if you will have a override button like FC2 to perform the pughacev cobra. If you have to use a button for it in the real SU-27 to perform the Cobra you can bet that ED will do that as well for the DCS AFM SU-27. But that won't be a clickable button in the cockpit.

[theropod]

I think i did misunderstood you. But now i seriously don't know what you really want. The pughacev cobra will be available in with the updated AFM SU-27. But that was already known.

But i don't know if you will have a override button like FC2 to perform the pughacev cobra. If you have to use a button for it in the real SU-27 to perform the Cobra you can bet that ED will do that as well for the DCS AFM SU-27. But that won't be a clickable button in the cockpit.

thank you! now for me it is good to know this feature will be included on upcoming su-27 and f-15 fcs which can be enable and disable from us to perform risky manuevers or push the control limits.

my question is: Cant it be the same on a-10a controls like a-10c? a mode botton can be usable to control aircraft without stability agumentation system to fly sensible dangerous conditions.

i didnt mean anything includes clickable cockpits . only some modes like salvo etc...

Edited February 6, 2014 by theropod

[winchesterdelta1]

I did not say that the F-15C will have such a override button. I only know that the SU-27 will be able to perform the Cobra with the new AFM. How this will be realised i don't know.

I don't think the A-10a will have the same controls in that regard as the A-10c. You just have to live with the FCS alway's on in the A-10a unless your hit and you damage it (but that i don't even know for sure).

[Exorcet]

at first i didnt ask how to recover,i asked how to enter spin continiously

i tried everything ,also i support with engines to both directions to enter spin deeper but a-10a correct it self immediately. there is nothing to recover!

on videos it is different.

can you record a track file with a-10a?

because the track with a-10c didnt show me the spin happening.

 

Like Frostie said, the A-10 will only spin if you force it too. I tried both the A and the C and they reacted exactly the same. I could spin with full back stick and full rudder, but releasing them would lead to automatic recovery. The A and the C performed exactly the same. I flew them both from the ME with an airstart, so they were both in the default condition, full sim mode, 40% fuel, no weapons.

[theropod]

f-15 has similar system with su-27 and its called CAS. this controls tree channel which includes pitch,yaw and roll. if this system turn on,computer controls moving surfices and corrects pilots mistakes from dangerous flight conditions. if it is off, it puts aircraft limits away and we can push the aoa limits and we can control aircraft on dangerous conditions.

su-27's limiter switchs are similar to cas and this feature allows pilot to perform cobra and other acrobatic manuevers.

if these features will not be included on both aircrafts than we wont be able to perform dangerous manuevers because computer wont allow us to do that.

and if ed will allow us to use this feature maybe they can do the same to a-10a like they did a-10c.

because they announced that both aircrafts afm's are same but this feature(sas) is not included on a-10a which can control (on or off)from us.

and forgive for my limited english:)

[theropod]

Like Frostie said, the A-10 will only spin if you force it too. I tried both the A and the C and they reacted exactly the same. I could spin with full back stick and full rudder, but releasing them would lead to automatic recovery. The A and the C performed exactly the same. I flew them both from the ME with an airstart, so they were both in the default condition, full sim mode, 40% fuel, no weapons.

i did a lot of test with low fuel and no weapon on different altitutes

maybe other users results and those videos:

and

confused[/url] my mind because nothing same with my a-10a tests.

thank you for your comparision.

[GGTharos]

Maybe you're confused because you insist on the A-10 on having dangerous flying characteristics which it may not have. It is an aerodynamically stable aircraft.

 

As for CAS correcting anything in Su-27 and F-15, you are wrong there too. These are scheduling systems that help make it easier to fly the aircraft, and in the Su-27 there is a AoA limiter which can be overriden by pulling the stick harder. There are no corrections of anything.