docfu Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Is there a list of which missiles to use for which targets? Information I am finding in Wikipedia doesn't appear to match how things work in the game. Obviously the KH-58 + ELINT pod is for long range SAMs and seems ineffective against anything smaller than an OSA or SA-8. However, it really feels like every time I put on a Phantasmorgia pod the enemy switches off their radar until I am right on top of them. Is this a side effect of the pod or is the weapons load out officer calling enemy EWR to let them know I am coming? What is the recommended way of taking down Strellas? VIKHRs and KH-25LMs usually put me in too close. Also, are the KH-58 and KH-25MPU useless without the Phantasmorgia pod? Edited February 21, 2014 by docfu
159th_Viper Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 What is the recommended way of taking down Strellas? VIKHRs and KH-25LMs usually put me in too close. That is the recommended way. Tailor your engagement properly and you'll never get too close, especially with the ML. Also, are the KH-58 and KH-25MPU useless without the Phantasmorgia pod? Yes. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
Zabuzard Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) GunPods: < 3km (effective at < 800m) dumb bombs: FAB 100/250/500: all-purpose BetAB-500/500shp: anti-runway, bunker (penetration bomb) KMGU-2/AO-2.5RT: all-purpose (96x explosive mines) KMGU-2/PTAB-2.5KO: all-purpose (96x anti tank mines) RBK 250/500/500U: anti-tank (cluster bomb) rockets: S-5 KO: all-purpose (1k warhead, 2400km/h) S-8 KOM: weak armored targets (3.6kg warhead, 600km/h) S-8 OFP2: weak armored targets (9.2kg warhead) S-13 OF: weak armored targets (2700km/h) S-24 B: all-purpose (2500km/h) S-25 OFM: heavy armored targets (190kg warhead, 2500km/h) TV-guided: KAB-500Kr: armored targets, bunker (500kg warhead, 16km range) Kh-29T: armored targets, bunker (317kg warhead, 12km range) Laser-guided: Kh-29L: armored targets, bunker (317kg warhead, 10km range, Mach 2.5) Kh-25ML: armored targets, bunker (90kg warhead, 15km range, Mach 0.72) S-25L: armored targets, bunker (190kg warhead, 3km range, 2500km/h) 9A4172 Vikhr: amored targets, tanks (8kg warhead, 10km range, Mach 1.7) Anti-radar: Kh-25MPU: radar-using targets (90kg warhead, 40km range, Mach 0.76) Kh-58U: radar-using targets (150kg warhead, 70km range, Mach 4) Special: SAB-100: illumination (dumb-"bomb", 2 minutes) S-8 TsM: smoke marking (rocket) ---------------------------------- SEAD range overview: 10km Vikhr 10km Kh-29L 12km Kh-29T 15km Kh-25ML 16km KAB500Kr 30km Kh-25MPU 70km Kh-58 U Enemy radar threats overview (range/height): 2km/1.5km M163 Vulcan 2.5km/2km ZSU-23-4 Shilka 3km/2.5km Gepard 6km/3km Roland 7km/6.5km OSA/Gecko 8km/5km Tunguska/Grison 12km/8km TOR/Gauntlet 16km/10km MIM-23-Hawk 16km/11km Kub/Gainful 25km/10km Newa/Goa 32km, 25km S-11 BOK/Gadfly 45km/30km Volkhlov/Grumble 90km/35km Patriot -------------------------------- Enemy IR threats overview (range/height): 3km/2.5km M6 Linebacker 3km/2.5km Stinger (Manpad) 3km/2.5km M1097 Avenger PMS 4.2km/3.5km Strela-1/Gaskin 4.5km/3km 9k38 IGLA/Grouse (Manpad) 5km/3.5km Strela-10/Gopher 8.5km/3km M48 Chaparral from the german Su-25T guide Edited February 21, 2014 by Zabuza
docfu Posted February 21, 2014 Author Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Totally, that just leaves one question unanswered: Does the enemy change their strategy if you mount a Phantasmorgia pod or is the pod interfering with my normal RWR? I am playing mission ATO 7.4 and with a normal load my RWR picks up enemy radar the second I take off from Sukhimi but if I reload and take a SEAD load-out instantly the skies are silent... (Thanks for the information from the German manual. I just checked and the above is not in the English manual currently installed on my system. Printing now.) Edited February 21, 2014 by docfu
GGTharos Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Some people program their SAMs carefully to make it so that they will not turn their radar on until you are a lot closer, but the AI doesn't do this by itself. The only SEAD weapons available to the Su-25T are the 25ML and 58, none of the other weapons are for SEAD. As for Strelas etc, they are, AFAIK, never an objective of SEAD ... DEAD maybe, but not SEAD. In any case, avoid those and strike your primary target instead. What you are experiencing could be a bug. Provide a SHORT track of this happening. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
xaoslaad Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 You can also turn on the Shkval and Phantasmagoria (O and I respectively) at the same time. Lock up the target with the Phantasmagoria, turn off the phantasmagoria (I), change weapons (D) to something TV or Laser guided and kill it with that. I've used this approach when out of ARM's more than once.
Zabuzard Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 The SPO-15 Beryoza RWR doesn't work together with the L-081 Fantasmagoria they are totally independent from each other. The Beryoza system is build to warn you from threats, therefore it's not necessary to be very accurate. It can't tell you the position of the enemy and the range is also just suggested using the strength of the received signal. The only thing it does pretty good is to tell you threats direction. Your Fantasmagoria feeds the missiles with data in order to destroy the source of the radar. Therefore it must be pretty accurate and it needs to find the source of radar waves and it's position, range, direction etc. Thats mainly the reason why your RWR 'detects' targets earlier. In DCS AI radar stations do use tactics like disabling their radar or when grouped with other stations the launchers can get their data from the others. They share intel and are intelligent. They do this if you're using a Fantasmagoria or not^^
GGTharos Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 No, they don't. In DCS AI radar stations do use tactics like disabling their radar or when grouped with other stations the launchers can get their data from the others. They share intel and are intelligent. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Zabuzard Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 You're sure they don't? Another tester told me that once^^
159th_Falcon Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 The only SEAD weapons available to the Su-25T are the 25ML and 58, none of the other weapons are for SEAD. Surely you mean the 25MPU instead of ML? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] The keeper of all mathematical knowledge and the oracle of flight modeling.:)
GGTharos Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 You're right, I surely do :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 They have to be programmed to do so via scripts. You're sure they don't? Another tester told me that once^^ [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Zabuzard Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Okay.. thought they do it in vanilla too^^ Thanks for that
docfu Posted February 22, 2014 Author Posted February 22, 2014 Actually I have a completely related question on this matter: I just launched APO-A-7.4 about 3-4 times. Every time I launch with a SEAD loadout(Fantasmorgia and KH-58 ), the OSA doesn't spawn. Every time I don't, the OSA is there. Same thing goes if I arm my wingman with a SEAD load-out. Is this a game bug? Seems stupid to launch a mission with a SEAD load-out and then rearm right there on the runway to non-SEAD just to prevent an OSA from showing up.
GGTharos Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 That does sound like a game bug. Please produce a couple of short tracks, just enough to show the thing spawning and then not, and post them. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
badger66 Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Okay.. thought they do it in vanilla too^^ Thanks for that What does vanilla mean please ?
159th_Viper Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 What does vanilla mean please ? Without script, default install. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
docfu Posted February 23, 2014 Author Posted February 23, 2014 Mission 7.4 Missing OSA Tracks Here you go. I checked the mission editor and it doesn't look like there is anything to say "maybe this unit spawns at random". This has been bugging me for several years now, especially APO A 3.4 because every time I took a SEAD loadout the only OSA I needed it for wasn't there... P7.4-No-SEAD-OSA-PRESENT.trk P7.4-With-SEAD-OSA-NONE.trk
esb77 Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) It's worth noting that unless values have been radically changed while I wasn't paying attention, the range and speed values in Zabuza's lengthy list do not reflect the values used in DCS World. Some are close to the same, others are off by margins that I'd estimate go up to 30 to 50%. The short and sweet version is: 58s or 25MPUs for long and medium range radar SAM units. 25MLs, Vikhrs, 29s (either variety), unguided munitions, and good tactical and flying skill for all the short range stuff. Haven't tested 25MLs recently, they used to be by far the best for destroying short range air defenses, but they may no longer be very good at it. In the test version of 1.2.7 Su-25T pilots were saying very uncomplimentary things about the 25ML's performance with the new flight model. Not sure how things wound up in the final version. Vikhrs are a more or less equivalent substitute, and superior in some ways (flight speed, payload capacity), they're just a bit harder to get launch authorization and standoff range is a bit less. I should hop out of my Mi-8 for long enough to check out how the AG missiles are behaving nowadays. Health advisory: stay at least 9 to 12 km away from any area you're not sure is clear of good air defenses. If you're not sure, then you'd better assume that they're there and ready to shoot. 23mm cannons do not count as good air defenses unless they swarm like locusts and have radar guidance, watch out for the 30+ mm stuff though. Edited February 25, 2014 by esb77 Callsign "Auger". It could mean to predict the future or a tool for boring large holes. I combine the two by predictably boring large holes in the ground with my plane.
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