Kaktus29 Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 we all know about ARH missiles and radars with TWS ability to fire at more than 1 target,but with AESA radars or just better than old gen. radars ability to track and lock more than 1 target increases.. i just want to ask is it possible then to fire at for instance 6 targets with SARH missile (yes you must keep the lock maintained at all time but still, it shouldn't be impossible to fire at multiple enemies locked by radar with SARH missile or is it?)..
159th_Viper Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 but still, it shouldn't be impossible to fire at multiple enemies locked by radar with SARH missile or is it?).. Theoretically probably not, provided of course that all six targets are within the radar scan zone to begin with. However...... Everything goes tits-up when theory meets reality: What happens when all six targets bug out to all points of the compass at launch/STT track. How do you maintain track/lock till impact on all six targets simultaneously? Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
TAW_Blaze Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 Theoretically it might be possible to hardlock multiple targets with an AESA but I doubt it's very practical. If you do it, you'll have to split your total available units into n divisions to lock n targets (I'm sure you could do it differently, this is just the most simple method to me). That would reduce the effectiveness, albeit it might be better than regular TWS. I honestly doubt something like this is implemented on any AESA at all. IIRC there was a mode in development to support dual sparrow launches back then, but they ditched it due to the slammer. All in all, such employment of your radar would be pretty stupid and useless. A position where you can shoot and expect real PK against more than 2 bandits is more or less nonexistant. By hardlocking them you give away your intentions, and why you'd wanna fire SARH that way in the age of ARH and AESA is beyond me.
Kaktus29 Posted March 30, 2014 Author Posted March 30, 2014 okei, then how about TWS-ing your many targets and firing SARH that way (by giving a general direction of targets to SARH) and then after appropriate time (computer tells you when SARH missiles r approaching the targets) u hardlock them and guide them in..
TAW_Blaze Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 I don't know if it's possible to launch any SARH in TWS. Most of them guide off the reflection from the target, if you have a TWS bug you're working with a very minor reflection. I still don't understand why you'd ever want to do this though.
sobek Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 SARH and LOAL is a no go AFAIK. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
*Rage* Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 Why would you want to launch a SARH when you could launch an ARH (assuming you have them since you have AESA capable aircraft)? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22
*Rage* Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 SARH and LOAL is a no go AFAIK. Actually I think I read the SARH seeker is not necessarily LOBL. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22
GGTharos Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 we all know about ARH missiles and radars with TWS ability to fire at more than 1 target,but with AESA radars or just better than old gen. radars ability to track and lock more than 1 target increases.. i just want to ask is it possible then to fire at for instance 6 targets with SARH missile (yes you must keep the lock maintained at all time but still, it shouldn't be impossible to fire at multiple enemies locked by radar with SARH missile or is it?).. MIG-31 does this. It uses a PESA radar but it's essentially the same capability for what you are asking. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 okei, then how about TWS-ing your many targets and firing SARH that way (by giving a general direction of targets to SARH) and then after appropriate time (computer tells you when SARH missiles r approaching the targets) u hardlock them and guide them in.. Some SAMs do this - notably check out the RIM-67 and associated launch system. A Ticonderoga can have 19 SARH missiles in flight and guide 4 simultaneously. However this system also uses missile directors so it's different from what you are thinking. The closest systems I can think of for what you are asking are f14, mig31, s300 and PATRIOT. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Kaktus29 Posted March 31, 2014 Author Posted March 31, 2014 @Blaze, rage.. because it would be immensely cheaper? why launch ARH if you can lauch SARH with same results.. obviously as GG stated it can be done, but probably some limitations in accuracy, responsiveness that would make this useful for targeting slower targets like awacs, bombers, etc..
GGTharos Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) No limitations in accuracy. Limitations in target size (RCS) maybe ie. targetting stealth planes or missiles, but not accuracy. SARH may be cheaper if you think about the cost of the missile, but when you think about having to sacrifice planes to someone who's wielding ARH, because they can use different tactics, it turns out SARH isn't cheaper at all. You can come up with ideas like having a gimballed radar, but that still limits you - you can't fully utilize tactics that are as aggressive as those of a fighter that can do a 180 and hit the road. Also, a modern SARH missile wouldn't be much cheaper than a modern ARH missile - you still need to give it all the smarts it needs to be competitive and useful. DCS right now gives you a very, very poor idea of the differences in missile technology. You can't even compare old sparrow and new sparrow: Sure, you have a big rocket in the new one, and it seems like it has greater range, but ... Old sparrow will be almost 100% jammed by a modern fighter. You can forget about burn-through. Old sparrow doesn't have a datalink IIRC, so launch range is quite limited by target RCS. Old sparrow doesn't have new CM rejection so chaff could be much more effective against it. Old sparrow doesn't use any efficient path-shaping. If you compare to something like AIM-120A: AIm-120A outranges R-27ER, AIM-7, and other missiles just through path shaping. AIM-120B is almost immune to chaff. If you don't have a jammer that can use the chaff to fool the AIM-120B, it will ignore any and all chaff you have on-board in most circumstances. So, in my opinion I believe you are looking at a somewhat simplified idea of things. You may be thinking of a PATRIOT/S300 solution where the missile has no brains, all the work is done in the ground station. But that again is a problem - it's only useful against low capability targets. Against high capability targets, sure, maybe you can win, but the odds are not in your favor. @Blaze, rage.. because it would be immensely cheaper? why launch ARH if you can lauch SARH with same results.. obviously as GG stated it can be done, but probably some limitations in accuracy, responsiveness that would make this useful for targeting slower targets like awacs, bombers, etc.. Edited March 31, 2014 by GGTharos [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
lunaticfringe Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Why would you want to launch a SARH when you could launch an ARH (assuming you have them since you have AESA capable aircraft)? Because you're working a tactic and want to force his response. You mustn't be afraid of working through the problem with a little more imagination.
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