Giving your Sided Winder Force Feedback 2 Steroids

[KLR Rico]

I've been attempting an FFB conversion of a Saitek Yoke... I haven't been satisfied with the amount of force I was getting, but the resistor trick did the job! I finally was able to finish the project and I'm pretty satisfied with the results. Thanks for sharing the tip.

[Whiplash]

I've been attempting an FFB conversion of a Saitek Yoke... I haven't been satisfied with the amount of force I was getting, but the resistor trick did the job! I finally was able to finish the project and I'm pretty satisfied with the results. Thanks for sharing the tip.

 

Awesome, did you make a thread on your modification?It sounds like a cool project.

[Boris]

I have recently acquired an MS Sidewinder FFB2 on ebay and now want to do a similar conversion to my stick.

 

However, I haven't done any kind of electronics work since high school. Is is possible for the realtive lay-person to do such a mod?

 

I want to extend the stick, increase the ffb and perhaps reroute some buttons from the base to the stick.

 

I guess the part that's most daunting is adding the resistors. The rest is just lengthening and rerouting cables right?

[Whiplash]

If you go into the project with the expectation that you are going to destroy a perfectly good SWFFB then you have nothing to lose :D. Seriously though, I am always taking on projects that I am not sure I will have the skills or tools to do so I might be a little bias when I say you can do this. If you are concerned about your ability to solder I highly recommend spending some time watching youtube tutorials. There is more to it then just applying heat. The solder connection at the resistors is tricky so you might want to try practicing on some spare ones.

[Boris]

Ah, the man himself!

 

I'm a fairly quick learner I guess... I've soldered before, but it's a few years back now. I just need to know what to do exactly. I've forgotten all my electonic theory. I'm not too bothered about breaking it, but FFB 2s are harder and harder to come by.

That being said, I won't be using it unless it's mounted to my seat, so this mod is a must for me!

 

Would you be so kind as to give me a quick tutorial and a list of things I need?

[Whiplash]

No need for electronic theory, just solder the resistors like I did. Here is a decent tutorial with a lot of good info.

 

${1}

 

I presoldered each resistor first then applied some flux to them because like the video tutorial mentions the flux in the wire boils off. Presoldering the resistors made a it a lot easier to stack them. As long as you re-apply flux to the presoldered ends all you need to do is stack the resistors and reheat the solder, physics takes care of the rest.

 

Also another tip, in the video he uses a fancy tinsel wire mesh thing to clean his tips ($20+ At Radio Shack). While not ideal I have used steel wool or even a wet paper towel as an easy substitute.

[Whiplash]

One other thing, if you are worried about the fumes from the flux just put a desk fan behind you.

[tommytank]

Got a SWFFB in the loft, if anyone wants it for bits.

[Boris]

Is this the right resistor?

 

http://www.ebay.de/itm/311003209756?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[Whiplash]

I think those will do it. I used the 1/16w rated resistors and they were too small then I got 1W resistors and they were too big. I'm not sure what the correct watt rating is but you might want to consider a 1/4W or 1/2W rated 1 ohm resistor. it's better to have an over power rated resistor than an under one, although going to big will make stacking them more difficult. the 1/15W resistors im using work fine but they were really too small which made them hard to stck.

[Boris]

If size is an issue, what's stopping me from using the old-school type resistors with the wires on the ends. That way I can just put the wires where I want them to go.

 

Like this one...

http://www.led-tech.de/de/Technik-und-Zubehoer/Widerstaende/Widerstand-1-Ohm-LT-191_29_33.html

 

Or is this not the same thing?

[KLR Rico]

You could use regular thru hole resistors just fine, smd's are just the cleaner option.

[Whiplash]

I could be mistaken because I can't really tell from my pictures but I think there is only a contact pad and no through hole in which case you're probably best off going with SMD resistors. Another clean option would be to remove the stock 1 ohm resistors and replace it with a 1/2 Ohm resistor but that more or less adds another step depending on how you look at it.

[KLR Rico]

There's a contact pad on each side of the existing resistors that you could solder the legs of the through hole resistors to, but honestly that's as much work as just putting another smd resistor. The only reason I'd suggest going that route is for the ease of getting through hole resistors over the smd parts.

[Boris]

Thanks for the help on the resistors guys! If I manage to find 1 Ohm resistors of the right size, I guess I'll go with the SMD's.

 

I have another question though... I've been thinking about replacing the stick itself as well.

I can't seem to find any nice buttons that I can add to the sidewinder stick, and in any case it's pretty small and doesn't offer much room for more buttons.

Most of the stick replacements I've seen done use the circuit board of the replacement stick.

 

Shouldn't it be possible to replace the stick with an 8 button, 1 hat stick and rewire the buttons to the corresponding parts on the Sidewinder board?

[KLR Rico]

That's possible, and you'd wire it up just as you're probably imagining.

 

My route was to replace the stick with one from an x52, keeping the board and base switches from the x52 and putting them on a base plate alongside the msffb mechanics.

[Whiplash]

you could use any stick and wire it up to a teensy board as well. The benifit of the Teensy board is that it will fit inside the SWFFB case (only 2" by .7"). A link to the teensy board I use to make a switch pannel is here: https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensypp.html

[Boris]

Jeez, that sounds like a nice solution, but I think I'm a bit out of my depth. I wouldn't know how to even begin soldering the wires to that board to make the buttons work.

Is it doable for the complete lay-person?

[Sokol1_br]

Boris,

 

Actually is a little easier wire buttons to Teensy that for MS FF2 board.

 

On MS FF2 board will be need unsolder and remove the micro switch's for the base buttons from the joystick main board (into base), and later solder wires in the place to plug in the new grip buttons.

 

This is a delicate operation that can kill the main board if not done carefully.

 

Under the MS FF 2 HAT has another board, will be need unsolder existent micro switch's and HAT and solder wires in the places (to connect in new grip buttons/HAT).

 

Is need maintain this HAT board because has some SMD diodes/resistor in then, that form the "button matrix" - unless you "decode" this matrix and create a new with conventional size component.

 

What make Teensy more easy to connect buttons/HAT is the use of pins in his inputs.

 

Get this version which already has male pins soldered:

 

https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy_pins_2.jpg

 

And 2 (or +, just in case) of this female connector:

 

https://www.pjrc.com/store/socket_12x1.html

 

Solder wires from this female connector to grip buttons (will need combine Teensy input pins in a Line x Row matrix), when ready just plug the connector to Teensy pins. Done. :thumbup:

 

Teensy, as development board come only with boot loader, will be need you write - via USB cable - a firmware in then to make the board work as "joystick" for Windows - has some firmware already available (like MMjoy) or you can create your own firmware (I think in C+ language). This - write firmware - is like write a file on DVD using Nero or similar software.

 

But notice that for helicopter FF trim will be need maintain one grip button wired to MS FF2 board.

 

Plan A = wire the new grip to MS FF 2 board.

Plan B = wire the new grip to Teensy board with one button from MS FF2 board.

 

Sokol1

Edited October 20, 2014 by Sokol1_br

[Whiplash]

I used the pre-programmed arduino to write the script for my teensy switch panel. It is a little intimidating at first but I can share that script with anyone interested. Once you have the basic functions its easy to customize.

 

on another note: My only heli experience is with the huey and I'm curious to know why you need to map your force trim to the sidewinder, can you map that key to any joystick plugged in? The one thing I have thought about though is IR sensor. You could simply replace it with a switch but then you have to remember to turn it off every time you finish playing.

[Boris]

Ok, this may be a little more challenging than expected... :music_whistling:

 

But I'm willing to do what it takes.

 

I looked up the form factor of the resistors I originally found and they're probably too small.

I found these which should be around the same size:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/100-SMD-Widerstand-1Ohm-RC1206-0-25W-1R-chip-resistors-1206-1-077248-/310749883116?pt=Bauteile&hash=item485a22eaec

 

To double check... Do the specs stack up... is that what I need?

 

I'm looking at getting a used X45, ideally a used CH Combatstick (similar in shape to the warthog, but of plastic because of the weight) to replace the grip with.

So you guys are saying it's entirely possible to wire a different grip to a teensy board, have all the buttons function and it's small enough to hide inside the FFB2 case? This means having a second USB cable and a physically separate device, right?

I also don't get why the trim button would have to be mapped to a sidewinder button. This button can be mapped to any device. Having to keep one of the sidewinder buttons for trim would complicate things.

 

I have thought about the light sensitive diode too. I'm not sure how I'm going to handle that one... Can't I just drill a tiny hole in the new grip and place it in there?

[Whiplash]

Those resistors should do it. Stick one of those on top of each of the four I highlighted in the picture and you will have doubled you force feedback.

 

Pretty much everything you just described there will work but just be aware there is some programming involved with getting the teensy board set up. I can help you with it but it will require a bit of intuition on your part. Also I don't think the x45 grip will be a lot heavier than the sidewinder but you may want to think about counter weighing the stick in which case there won't be room in the case for the counter weight. My current version doesn't have a counter weight but it is pretty annoying when I'm spooled up on the deck in the Huey and I take my hands off the stick and falls over and causes my rotor to go flying off. Maybe if you don't counter weigh it you might want to just make the light sensing diode a switch so that it doesn't go limp when you take you hand off it. Just remember to turn it off when your done or things might get a little hot if you leave it on over night.

[Boris]

I'll think about using a counter weight... I just have to see how to implement it with my current setup. I'll need a hole in my mounting but I also want to be able to screw on my Warthog when I need it.

 

I have a similar set-up as you have, where I've built a tray below my seat. At the moment I have bolted my Warthog with extension to it and the intention was to have this ability to switch between the Warthog and the sidewinder.

 

I think I'll see how I go without a counterweight and will add one later if I think I need it.

 

I've ordered the resistors so they should arrive soon.

 

Also, I've come across a used CH Combatstick, which is a grip I really like, since it is similar to the Warthog. I like the flat thumb button which is a lot like the trim button on the Ka-50. The fact that it's an old serial port model won't cause any complications, right?

Could I get the grip to work with a Teensy Board?

[Boris]

And another thing... I read the teensy boars only supports one hat switch? If this is true, can I treat the other hat switch as separate buttons for instance?

[Whiplash]

Sorry, my email account decided to start blocking my forum notification and since I haven't been frequently visiting this section I missed your response.

 

As long as the switches work on the CH you should have no problem wiring it to a teensy board.

 

I actually just picked up a warthog myself so we might be working on the exact same project here soon enough. I also purchased a seat from a 350z off craigslist. So I made these mounts for the warthog. The square tube fits in a channel piece that is secured with a knob screw. I just losen the knob and pull the throttle or stick out and I am just left with a less than normal office chair.

 

 

I used that for a day or two before I decided to make an extension for the warthog. It was just too hard to go back to such a short throw after I have been using my modified sidewinder for so long.

 

 

Next I plane to make a base for the warthog on my Sidewinder FFB and forgo the teensy board and just make a mount under my chair for the warthog base then run an extension cable up through the Sidewinder FFB.

 

I will definitely be using a counterweight though. Given how lite the stock stick is and how much a PITA it was to fly without the ability to let go of the stick its definitely mandatory in my book. I'm also working on a mod to convert the pots in the Sidewinder to hall sensors. I'll be sure to post more as I progress. If you got em I'd like to see some pictures of your project as well.