Best Fighter for Twist Stick User?

[Zakatak]

Besides the ME-262, I'm strictly speaking propeller planes. I'm likely not going to be buying rudder pedals due to lack of both funds and USB ports, so I'm limited to twisting the stick on my X52 Pro. I know there is an Auto Rudder feature, but the only options seem to be on or off, with no ability to give it limited authority kind of like the Heading autopilot on the Ka-50 does. I bought the P-51D out of curiosity to see if I would be interesting in WWII planes and it's a very rudder heavy aircraft, and using the twist function non-stop is awkward and I'm betting it's bad for the springs.

 

If there is no way to give the Auto Rudder some limited authority that helps keep me straight but still let's me use the axis (without having to press Z or X which only gives me full deflection), I'd rather have it turned off. So what WW2 fighter in this sim would have me wrestling with the rudder the least, save for the ME-262? Piston engined taildraggers are a fun challenge from what I'm used to.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Zakatak

[Exorcet]

Time to demand a P-38. I don't have specific data, but I wouldn't expect any of the single engine piston aircraft to be much better than the P-51. Even if some are better, you'd still be on that rudder a lot.

 

The lack of pedals are my bane as well. I can fly the P-51 pretty well with just the X-52, but in a dogfight I can barely hit anything because I'm always off by a little amount. Fine control with the twist stick is difficult.

[Paradox]

I'm afraid that rudder controls are kind of part and parcel of controlling such a light aircraft with such massive torque at one end.

 

Perhaps VEAO's P-40 since it has a slightly lower power engine than the others perhaps resulting in less p-factor?

 

I've heard that 109s have empennages that are designed to counter some of the p-factor but I think that's only so you don't have to trim for takeoff and then retrim for normal flight.

[airdoc]

I'm afraid that rudder controls are kind of part and parcel of controlling such a light aircraft with such massive torque at one end.

 

Perhaps VEAO's P-40 since it has a slightly lower power engine than the others perhaps resulting in less p-factor?

 

I've heard that 109s have empennages that are designed to counter some of the p-factor but I think that's only so you don't have to trim for takeoff and then retrim for normal flight.

 

I don't mean to sound critical, but I 'd have to disagree somewhat.

 

I think that precise rudder input is important regardless of the aircraft torque. Agreed, high torque requires yaw manipulation with the rudder, but it is the dogfight (and formation flying for some) where rudder input becomes paramount.

 

i.e, during fast acceleration, as happens in a dive while booming&zooming, even if the torque remains the same, the increased airspeed will cause a significant degree of side-slip (very pronounced in a Spit) which will require the pilot to compensate with rudder if he is to aim precisely. There just isnt enough time to trim properly. And then there are all those deliberate micro-side slips just before aiming; or the combined aileron and rudder input when breaking off suddenly etc.

 

In a dogfight, rudder is probably the most important control surface.

[Paradox]

I don't mean to sound critical, but I 'd have to disagree somewhat.

 

I think that precise rudder input is important regardless of the aircraft torque. Agreed, high torque requires yaw manipulation with the rudder, but it is the dogfight (and formation flying for some) where rudder input becomes paramount.

 

i.e, during fast acceleration, as happens in a dive while booming&zooming, even if the torque remains the same, the increased airspeed will cause a significant degree of side-slip (very pronounced in a Spit) which will require the pilot to compensate with rudder if he is to aim precisely. There just isnt enough time to trim properly. And then there are all those deliberate micro-side slips just before aiming; or the combined aileron and rudder input when breaking off suddenly etc.

 

In a dogfight, rudder is probably the most important control surface.

 

I perfectly agree with everything you just said, precise control with the rudder is very important as anyone who's tried to strafe an Ural or something with a P-51 knows.

 

I feel that precise rudder control is difficult to achieve with a twist stick.

 

I suppose my point is that an aircraft with a large degree of P-factor will be more difficult to precisely control at least in the yaw axis than an aircraft with a small degree of P-factor.

 

I don't actually know if that's true but my reading on the Griffon engined spitfires appears to support my assumption.

 

Your point about changes in airspeed being more important than counter-acting P-factor is well taken, I think you're completely right.

[airdoc]

I perfectly agree with everything you just said, precise control with the rudder is very important as anyone who's tried to strafe an Ural or something with a P-51 knows.

 

I feel that precise rudder control is difficult to achieve with a twist stick.

 

I suppose my point is that an aircraft with a large degree of P-factor will be more difficult to precisely control at least in the yaw axis than an aircraft with a small degree of P-factor.

 

I don't actually know if that's true but my reading on the Griffon engined spitfires appears to support my assumption.

 

Your point about changes in airspeed being more important than counter-acting P-factor is well taken, I think you're completely right.

 

I guess I mis-interepreted your point, sorry. I completely agree with what you say as well.

[Zakatak]

Time to demand a P-38. I don't have specific data, but I wouldn't expect any of the single engine piston aircraft to be much better than the P-51. Even if some are better, you'd still be on that rudder a lot.

 

The lack of pedals are my bane as well. I can fly the P-51 pretty well with just the X-52, but in a dogfight I can barely hit anything because I'm always off by a little amount. Fine control with the twist stick is difficult.

The P-38L would be utterly fantastic addition. Not a very good dogfighter due to the roll rate, but air-to-air has never been my speciality in the first place. It'd make a good ground attack and reconnaissance platform, no? I don't have a lot of WWII knowledge.

 

I'm gonna try adding a ton of curvature to the rudder axis while also putting in a decent amount of saturation X. I should be able to make finer adjustments that way while not having to twist the stick as much for full deflection.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Zakatak

[MVSokie]

P-38 was just fine in a dogfight, top 2 scoring U.S. aces of WWII were in P-38s, Richard Bong and Thomas McGuire.

[Paradox]

The P-38L would be utterly fantastic addition. Not a very good dogfighter due to the roll rate, but air-to-air has never been my speciality in the first place. It'd make a good ground attack and reconnaissance platform, no? I don't have a lot of WWII knowledge.

 

I'm gonna try adding a ton of curvature to the rudder axis while also putting in a decent amount of saturation X. I should be able to make finer adjustments that way while not having to twist the stick as much for full deflection.

 

Yeah those curves might help a lot, easy access to the rudder trim control might help as well.

 

I hope you're interested in the Hawk because the p-factor on jets is much less of a factor (I'm sure you realise that but it's fun to point out that jet engines do have a trace torque factor to think about) and it will be great for its neutral flying characteristics and its great demonstration of exactly what rudder control will do to an aircraft.

 

It should be a very good light attack aircraft as well.

[Zakatak]

Yeah those curves might help a lot, easy access to the rudder trim control might help as well.

 

I hope you're interested in the Hawk because the p-factor on jets is much less of a factor (I'm sure you realise that but it's fun to point out that jet engines do have a trace torque factor to think about) and it will be great for its neutral flying characteristics and its great demonstration of exactly what rudder control will do to an aircraft.

 

It should be a very good light attack aircraft as well.

I'll be buying both the Hawk and MiG-21 for sure, I just want to be able to participate in the WWII scene as well.

 

The curves did help me control the rudder. I tried putting the rudder trim to my top rotary, but it's honestly quicker to just look down and roll it by pulling the left mouse. Assigning it to an axis makes it turn quite slowly and I have to keep staring it it to make sure I set it to the right spot. Buttons would help, although I've run out of them (including the MFD buttons) so I'll have to sacrifice something first.

 

I loaded up the solo practice for aerial gunnery. I managed to get one of the P-51's on fire after a good minute, but I eventually just gave up on the second one out of frustration because I just couldn't land any decent hits on the bastard. I followed the instructions for using the sight to the point, and I have the wingspan and ranging levers assigned to my ministick. My tracers looked alright but my bullets seem to go right through him, and if unlimited ammo wasn't on in training mode, I'd probably run out of bullets three times over just trying to make him smoke. :(

 

Also, during the ground attack training mission, my propeller stopped. In an instant. One second I was at 2600 RPM, the next it was a zero. I don't know how and I don't recall hitting any buttons or being heavy on the engine. Any ideas?

[Whiplash]

I used to use the twist on my X52 for a long time with IL2 and ROF. I finally bit the bullet and got some CH peddles. It took a while to relearn how to fly with them but once I became familiar with them I realize there is no substitute. If you are in the US I would suggest checking Craiglist daily because I see a few of them on there in my area from time to time. You can get some really good deals if you just know where to look. With that said some of the best advice I got for scoring hits on a plane is to try to use as little rudder as possible. Yes it is very important when you get into a turning fight with another opponents, so try to avoid those situations. You are going to want to master the boom and zoom tactic. Line up on your prey and shoot right through them focusing on using as little rudder input as possible.

 

And of course I have to give a shameless plug to invite you to join us on our dogfight server. If you get on teamspeak anyone one of the DoW pilots on at the time would be happy to fly with you. That's not to say we are experts but it always helps to have someone there attempting to cover your six o'clock.

[Exorcet]

Also, during the ground attack training mission, my propeller stopped. In an instant. One second I was at 2600 RPM, the next it was a zero. I don't know how and I don't recall hitting any buttons or being heavy on the engine. Any ideas?

What was your coolant temp?

 

The P-51 has the cooling controls set to automatic by default and it seems to do a bad job of keeping things cool. When the temps get high, they just don't open enough and you risk overheating even with mundane manifold pressure and RPM.

 

You can manually open the cooling for oil and coolant by holding down the keys/switches for each for 20 seconds. Doing this is the only thing that has let me get a decent climb rate from take off.

[Zakatak]

What was your coolant temp?

 

The P-51 has the cooling controls set to automatic by default and it seems to do a bad job of keeping things cool. When the temps get high, they just don't open enough and you risk overheating even with mundane manifold pressure and RPM.

 

You can manually open the cooling for oil and coolant by holding down the keys/switches for each for 20 seconds. Doing this is the only thing that has let me get a decent climb rate from take off.

I have the radiator air controls mapped to two of my hat switches, with the radiator oil on my top POV switch and the radiator coolant on the throttle hat. I was just copying another profile, I didn't know how important they were. I figured auto would be good enough unless a mechanism failed requiring me to switch to manual. Thanks for the heads up.

 

I don't see how overheating your engine can cause it to instantly seize up the propeller like that though.

[MVSokie]

listen too the engine carefully you can hear it start knocking prior to seizing up, ive had it do that too me several times and looked at my temp guage only to find it in the red and was able to compensate and cool it off in time.

[Merlin-27]

Also, during the ground attack training mission, my propeller stopped. In an instant. One second I was at 2600 RPM, the next it was a zero. I don't know how and I don't recall hitting any buttons or being heavy on the engine. Any ideas?

 

Try to keep your airspeed up also. You need airflow to cool. Flying slow with high engine settings will kill the engine quick.