The Arrow

[doveman]

Whilst apparently not completely accurate and more of a docu-drama, I caught "The Arrow" featuring Dan Aykroyd, about the development and subsequent cancellation in the 1950s of the Avro Canada CF-105 Arrow on TV last night.

 

Very interesting watch. It appears the cancellation of what was a very advanced aircraft for the time (the end credits even claimed the F-18 doesn't achieve the performance the Arrow was on target to hit and in test flights it had reached 1,600km/h at 50,000ft whilst climbing and accelerating and a top speed of Mach 1.98) was mostly a political decision by an incoming Conservative government, led by John Diefenbaker, trying to look tough and rein in "rampant Liberal spending" and instead become a partner in NORAD and the SAGE air defence missile system (they ended up spending more buying missiles and arguably inferior aircraft from the US) and all trace of the programme was ordered scrapped.

 

Following cancellation, a large number of the engineers on the programme went on to work for NASA or went to work elsewhere in the US and UK, losing Canada a massive amount of talent, not to mention the 14,000 jobs lost at Avro and estimated 35,000 jobs in supporting industries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_CF-105_Arrow

 

Ironically, in 1962 it seems the US subsequently plotted the overthrow of Diefenbaker, due to his anti-nuclear stance (he refused to accept nuclear warheads on the Bomarc anti-air missiles) to replace him with the newly pro-nuclear Liberal Lester Pearson http://www.peace.ca/regimechangeincanada.htm

 

However, by 1964 it seems the US had decided they didn't like Pearson anymore. Another film I saw recently is "Agent of Influence" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0307934/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 which, although speculative in part, details how, in 1964, the Canadian RCMP collaborated with the CIA to kidnap and interrogate the former Canadian Ambassador to Russia, John Watkins, apparently in a CIA-led attempt to smear the Prime Minister, who was a close personal friend and whom they considered to be a "Red". Mr Watkins died during this interrogation but this was covered up until it was exposed in 1980.

 

I'm not sure who comes out looking worse from these events, the US for putting pressure on and meddling in Canada, or Canada for being weak and letting themselves be manipulated.

[OutOnTheOP]

First, comparisons to F/A-18 are silly. If all you're comparing are vague "performance numbers" like top speed and ceiling... well, then, most 1960's era interceptors "outperform" most modern fighters. Higher short-duration dash speed does not a superlative fighter make.

 

That said, the Arrow did nothing special for it's day. The US F-102, and particularly F-106, were comparable or superior in those performance specs, with the F-106 fielded before CF-105, having a slightly higher ceiling, and significantly higher dash speed. Does that make it a "better" fighter? I don't know, but it certainly shows the CF-105 wasn't any groundbreaking super-interceptor.

 

As regards conspiracy theories of what political entity was out to get who: do you even read the big red banner at the top of the forum?

[ericoh]

It is mostly politics and "hand shaking" that sells millitary equipment. Money makes the world go round. ;)

 

Better products dont always win.

 

P.S.: Now i know which movie to watch tonight.

Edited August 25, 2014 by ericoh

[IvanK]

Read "Storms of controversy" if you want a pretty good insight into the political machinations that undermined the Arrow.

[Kayos]

My Grandfather was an Engineer on the Arrow. It's too bad Canada didn't manufacture it. Would have done a lot of good for our aviation industry.

[doveman]

First, comparisons to F/A-18 are silly. If all you're comparing are vague "performance numbers" like top speed and ceiling... well, then, most 1960's era interceptors "outperform" most modern fighters. Higher short-duration dash speed does not a superlative fighter make.

 

Yeah, I suspected it was probably just hyperbole in the closing captions but was interested to know what other people thought. Thanks for the info.

 

As regards conspiracy theories of what political entity was out to get who: do you even read the big red banner at the top of the forum?

Not when I'm using Tapatalk as it's not shown ;)

[doveman]

Read "Storms of controversy" if you want a pretty good insight into the political machinations that undermined the Arrow.

 

Thanks, I'll look out for that. Much as I enjoyed the movie, I'm sure the book will give me a much more accurate description of events.

[doveman]

My Grandfather was an Engineer on the Arrow. It's too bad Canada didn't manufacture it. Would have done a lot of good for our aviation industry.

 

Yeah, seems a real shame, not just for the aviation industry but all the supporting industries, not to mention the possible non-aviation related spinoffs that often result from large military industries.

 

Sorry to hear your Grandfather got caught up in this mess. Did he manage to find alternative work in his field, either in Canada or abroad?

[doveman]

It is mostly politics and "hand shaking" that sells millitary equipment. Money makes the world go round. ;)

 

Better products dont always win.

 

Don't I know it. I'm British and politics has resulted in us spending ridiculous sums of money on aircraft carriers without any suitable aircraft to launch from them :doh:

[Kayos]

Yeah, seems a real shame, not just for the aviation industry but all the supporting industries, not to mention the possible non-aviation related spinoffs that often result from large military industries.

 

Sorry to hear your Grandfather got caught up in this mess. Did he manage to find alternative work in his field, either in Canada or abroad?

 

ya, He ended up working with Orenda Engines after Avro got broken up.

[doveman]

ya, He ended up working with Orenda Engines after Avro got broken up.

 

Glad to hear it. I see they developed the engine for the Arrow, so at least there was some connection there.