Questions about DCS and US Armed Force

[Dudeinthesun]

Greetings from Thailand I am new here so if this is in the wrong channel please let me know.

 

First I just want to thank ED team for creating DCS and saving my childhood team of being a military pilot. I have -700 vision and a Retinal Detachment condition where i cannot engage in activities that induces moderate to high Gs. So you can imagine a let down I experienced.

 

In any case, I bought the A10c and was blown away at how realistic it is (my friend who is a first officer flying a 777 pretty much darted home to purchase a copy after seeing mine in action)

 

This is just more of a personal curiosity question. Did the US Armed Force make any fuss about ED making such a detailed simulation of their currently active plane? How much cooperation did you get/not get? Is there systems in the planes that you could not replicate?

 

again, great game. I hope to fly this like a pro someday!

[Stealth_Eagle]

The DCS A-10C, if I am thinking correctly, is a commercially available version of a real A-10C flight sim that the US Military created as a contract for Eagle Dynamics and Eagle Dynamics asked if they could release a commercial version which they got permission to, obviously changed the procedures so you couldn't steal a real life A-10.

 

Hope this was helpful,

Eagle

[xaoslaad]

They didn't change any procedures to my knowledge. Some stuff is classified and not modeled (IFF is one example I think) but otherwise it's modeled to the extent they could.

[Yurgon]

I believe the approximate figure is that DCS A-10C is about 90% correct in terms of systems modeling. Some things like the TGP image are more or less faked to look somewhat realistic, and as said before the IFF is completely left out.

 

There is another huge difference, though: "Our" A-10C is rather old, it's suite 3 IIRC whereas the currently active models have been upgraded to suite 7, so their avionics are quite a bit advanced. For instance, suite 7 features a Helmet-Mounted Cueing System.

 

You'll find many more thoughts and info on the matter around the forum, for instance in this thread: How Real is it and how effectiv is the real A-10C?

 

AFAIK, ED created an A-10C desktop simulator for the Air National Guard and were allowed to create DCS A-10C as a commercial (by-) product, obviously leaving out anything classified, and I guess some systems are purposely not modeled 100% in order to keep their actual capabilities somewhat obscured, while other systems aren't modeled 100% because they don't matter much in a flight sim or because fully modeling them would be too complex.

 

The point is, DCS A-10C wasn't created under the Military's radar, they were indeed fully aware and apparently approved of it. :smartass:

 

In any case, I believe DCS A-10C is about as real as most of us could ever get their hands on (there are real life crew chiefs, pilots, air traffic controllers etcetera around the forum, but they're obviously the exception). :thumbup:

[xaoslaad]

Btw, I believe I've heard of even 'legitimate' flights have been met by military police on the taxiway because of botched paperwork. Taxiing an aircraft without permission... forget it. Even if you know how to prep (something not covered in the game) an A-10C for flight, somehow manage to get to one, start it up, and start taxiing.... good luck with your court appearance is all I'm going to say.

[Yurgon]

Even if you know how to prep (something not covered in the game) an A-10C for flight, somehow manage to get to one, start it up, and start taxiing....

 

Now that's an interesting question: Would a single person even be able to prep an A-10 for flight? And on top of that, would the typical pilot even know all the necessary steps?

 

I don't remember where I heard it, but with respect to airline pilots, a maintenance guy once said something along the lines of "During pre-flight, the pilot checks that the engines aren't missing", and I guess that's not too far from the truth. :D

[KLR Rico]

I've never maintained the A-10's, but on the planes I have worked, the prep is easy, basically if there's a "remove before flight" streamer, it comes out. :)

 

But yeah, security forces would be on you like flies on $*&% if you even *start* engines without clearance. Been there & done that when the message didn't get relayed properly.

[Yurgon]

I honestly think that there is no way a person with DCS experience can start the A-10, absolutely not.

 

You mean cold start from the cockpit, with full ground crew available and everything?

 

Well, for starters most of us (myself included) would have no clue how to do a proper pre-flight check or how to get into the cockpit without damaging anything (with the Hog's big pit, this step is probably a bit easier than with tight fits like the Viper) or flooding the thing with foreign objects that could pose a problem later on.

 

But if the Air Force ever allowed us a go at a full cockpit simulator, I think some of us would actually do surprisingly good at basic tasks like start-up, flying a pattern and landing the Hog without damaging it. I guess some of the more experienced DCS pilots might actually be tolerable in a flight with real pilots, possibly even including a combat scenario.

 

The thing is, in a full scale simulator we get unlimited lives, it's just a bit more expensive than DCS. :D

 

In the real aircraft, it only takes one mistake.

[EtherealN]

But if the Air Force ever allowed us a go at a full cockpit simulator, I think some of us would actually do surprisingly good at basic tasks like start-up, flying a pattern and landing the Hog without damaging it. I guess some of the more experienced DCS pilots might actually be tolerable in a flight with real pilots, possibly even including a combat scenario

 

Matt did that, I believe. :)

 

Anyway, yes, what's there is almost all as in the real thing. The devil is, however, in the details.

 

As for what the USAF thinks about it - they approved it and it's design. They had their requirements for what needed to be removed (and while some might be able to guess - and in a few cases knows fully, since there are actual A-10 maintainers/former pilots etcetera around - what is wrong, those that know won't talk, because they like the not-being-in-jail thing. :P )

 

One of the "details" though is that "A-10C" is not a static thing. Think like "F-16C". When you look at the aircraft closer, there's things called "Blocks", "MLU"'s etc etc. Suites. So on. So even the things that WERE cleared to be exactly "copied" into the consumer version might not be the same in todays operational jets, even though they're still "A-10C".

 

As for which things might be lagging behind in that sense? I have no clue. I could make some semi-educated guesses, but just in case they would be correct I won't. :P

[FoxHoundELite]

question about DCS: can a modder turn the current A-10C into a modernize A-10C(Suite 7),not completely but..some minor change maybe?

[Eddie]

No.

 

Only a handful of systems are modelled true to their real world counterparts, with some systems such as SADL, the defensive aids suite and others being entirely fictional (although reasonable, if limited, game facsimiles). Most of the avionics systems are simplified in some respects, and some of the aircraft systems are also simplified as well.

 

Yes it's still the most accurate simulation of a modern military aircraft you can run on your PC, but it's not as accurate as some might like to think it is.

[Dudeinthesun]

Matt did that, I believe. :)

 

Anyway, yes, what's there is almost all as in the real thing. The devil is, however, in the details.

 

As for what the USAF thinks about it - they approved it and it's design. They had their requirements for what needed to be removed (and while some might be able to guess - and in a few cases knows fully, since there are actual A-10 maintainers/former pilots etcetera around - what is wrong, those that know won't talk, because they like the not-being-in-jail thing. :P )

 

One of the "details" though is that "A-10C" is not a static thing. Think like "F-16C". When you look at the aircraft closer, there's things called "Blocks", "MLU"'s etc etc. Suites. So on. So even the things that WERE cleared to be exactly "copied" into the consumer version might not be the same in todays operational jets, even though they're still "A-10C".

 

As for which things might be lagging behind in that sense? I have no clue. I could make some semi-educated guesses, but just in case they would be correct I won't. :P

 

Thank you and everyone for the insights! Even if it's 90% detailed you really can't find anything like this. I actually saw footage of this plane on tv when i was younger during the first Gulf War and it's always been stuck in the back of my head. So being able to "pilot" it 23 years later does make the experience rather nostalgic haha. Now I just need to land properly and brag. Cheers!