Anyone still using Foxy for Cougar?

[Fakum]

I still use Foxy software for my Cougar HOTAS, my A-10 profile is just fine and simpler then the profile I created many years ago for Black Shark. I recently installed Black Shark 2 after many years of just flying the A-10V and I want to edit some buttons. My biggest problem is, for the life of me I can not figure out how the buttons were assigned to a specific "X" key? For example, how did I at one time determine that the "H3 UP" key would be "X9"? I do not have a DEF X9 statement anywhere? If I can figure this out, I can continue to reverse engineer what I was once fluent with and make my changes. Thanks for any feedback.

 

BTN H3U /I KD(X9) DLY(200) KU(X9)

/O KD(X8 ) DLY(200) KU(X8 )

 

DEF X10 DELAY(500) H3U AND S3

DEF X11 DELAY(500) H3U AND NOT S3

DEF X12 NOT H3U AND X8

DEF X13 NOT H3U AND X9

 

BTN X10 Trimmerreset

BTN X11 /H Trimmer

BTN X12 HoverOn/Off

BTN X13 Wheelbrakeparking

[Lange_666]

Still use Foxy but never really understood the entire DX thing...

So i make all my profiles without them.

[Kuky]

Those X keys are not keys or button presses of the HOTAS, they are logical flags or states. By the way I still use HOTAS Cougar as well as Foxy (and I love how Foxy is versatile and has so many ways and options to program things, although I don't know all of them, but do know most usefull ones, things like short press, long press, with other button combinations and standard /U /M /D /I /O combo's)

 

Now, you define each by saying what button combination(s) define a logical flag. (each logical flag must be defined somewhere in the file, otherwise it won't work). You can not only define logical flag as some button press (or release or combinations of, but also you can set one logical flag true (and stay true) untill some other condition is satisfied, and that logical flag is 'released')

 

For example

 

DEF X1 (H2U)

This means the logical flas called X1 is true when H2U button is pressed

 

DEF X2 (S3)

This means the logical flas called X2 is true when S3 button is pressed

 

These two work independently, meaning if you press both H2U and S3, logical flag X1 and X2 are true (ON), when you release the buttons they are no longer true (OFF)

 

 

But if you define logical flag (its actually a condition that satisfies the flag to become true) like this:

 

DEF X3 (H2U AND S3)

This means the logical flag called X3 is true when H2U and S3 button are presed at the same time

 

DEF X4 (H2U NOT S3)

This means the logical flag called X4 is true when H2U is pressed but S3 button is not presed at the same time

 

comparing the X3 and X4 with X1 and X2, if you press just H2U or just S3 you get one condition satisfied (namely X1 and X2) but if you press H2U first X1 becomes true, but then keep it on and then press S3, X1 is no longer true and X3 becomes true... see how it works?

 

You can even have new logical flag depend on other logical flags... really, your imagination is the limit.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Kuky

[Kuky]

By the way, H3U AND NOT S3 should be just H3U NOT S3

Also, DEF X12 NOT H3U AND X8 should be DEF X12 X8 NOT H3U

(both work but writing it like this is easier to read, for me anyway)

Also put brackets, its easier to read as well

 

DEF X12 (X8 NOT H3U) is easier to read than DEF X12 X8 NOT H3U

Edited October 10, 2014 by Kuky

[Fakum]

Thanks Kuky, I will have to read thru this again a bit slower later today, I really did not grasp it in a quick read. I will respond back shortly.

 

By the way, I know you suggested some things should be changed, keep in mind that this programming that I attached was done when Black Shark came out, and it worked just fine for me at the time, and it was developed based on the Foxy tutorial. But the Foxy tutorial was not very helpful it seemed when it came to the "X" assignments, and that is what I'm trying to figure out, how did I come up with "X9" being associated to "H3U" to begin with. I don't know if it was random or specific,,,

[Fakum]

Ok, so I went through your post again, and I get it! I appreciate you clearing up one aspect, but I believe my original question is open. The Line:

BTN H3U /I KD(X9) DLY(200) KU(X9)

 

Does not make sense to me right now (although functional). That line is stating that if you press "H3U"(while holding in S3) the action that will take place is a keypad depression and release, I have no idea how it became (X9)? Especially since "X9" is NOT defined in the programming anywhere? What the heck is X9 (doesn't seem to be a logical flag per definition, and how did I implement that specifically I have no recollection of?

[Fakum]

ok, so my follow postings are now gone, so here is a copy of my functioning joystick file. As you can see, "X9" is listed for H3U, (as a side note "X8" is as well) These are NOT defined. So the bottom line is, how did I assign these to begin with as I have no recollection, but yet they work?

 

Rem ################################################

Rem

Rem Fakums Black Shark V6G.tmj

Rem for

Rem DCS: Black Shark

Rem

Rem Fakum

Rem Last modified: 08 August 2009, 6:07 pm

Rem Controllers: Thrustmaster Cougar

Rem

Rem ################################################

 

 

USE MDEF Fakums Black Shark V6G.tmm

USE FOXY README DCSBlackShark_Viper.rtf

USE FOXY GRAPHIC Fakums Black Shark V6.bmp

USE HAT1 FORCED_CORNERS

 

Rem USE ALL_DIRECTX_BUTTONS

 

 

 

Rem ################################################

Rem Joystick

Rem ################################################

 

BTN TG1 /I GunSelect

/O /H Gunfire

BTN S1 /I KU-31Shkvalcenter

/O /H Locktarget

BTN S2 /I

/O /H Releaseweapons

BTN S4 /I Ejectsequence

/O /P TeamSpeakDown /R TeamSpeakUp

 

Rem H1

 

BTN H1U /I /H Cyclicnosedown

/O /H KU-31Shkvalslewup

BTN H1D /I /H Cyclicnoseup

/O /H KU-31Shkvalslewdown

BTN H1L /I /H Cyclicbankleft

/O /H KU-31Shkvalslewleft

BTN H1R /I /H Cyclicbankright

/O /H KU-31Shkvalslewright

 

Rem H2

 

BTN H2U /I PRTsSend/Memory

/O Helmet-mountedsystemOn/Off

BTN H2D /I Masterarmon/off

/O UV-26Startdispensing

BTN H2L /I WeaponsystemcontrolswitchManual/Auto

/O Weaponmodeswitch

BTN H2R /I Cannonrateoffiresetting

/O Cannonroundselectorswitch

 

Rem H3

 

BTN H3U /I KD(X9) DLY(200) KU(X9)

/O KD(X8 ) DLY(200) KU(X8 )

 

DEF X10 DELAY(500) H3U AND S3

DEF X11 DELAY(500) H3U AND NOT S3

DEF X12 NOT H3U AND X8

DEF X13 NOT H3U AND X9

 

BTN X10 Trimmerreset

BTN X11 /H Trimmer

BTN X12 HoverOn/Off

BTN X13 Wheelbrakeparking

 

DEF X21 DELAY (500) H3D

DEF X22 NOT H3D AND X23

 

BTN H3D /I TrackIR_Precision

/O KD(X23) DLY(400) KU(X23)

 

BTN X21 TrackIR_Pause

BTN X22 TrackIR_Center

 

BTN H3L /I Cockpitgaugesillumination

/O /H Collectivebrake-Assignaltitudelever

BTN H3R /I AutopilotEmergencyOff

/O AutopilotAllOn

 

Rem H4

 

BTN H4U /I LaserstandbyOn/Offswitch

/O WeaponselectionA-Amode

BTN H4D /I Mastercautionpush-light

/O Weaponselectionallstations

BTN H4L /I Weaponsystemmodeselector_toleft

/O Weaponselectionoutwardstations

BTN H4R /I Weaponsystemmodeselector_toright

/O Weaponselectioninwardstations

 

Rem ################################################

Rem Throttle

Rem ################################################

 

Rem T2/T3/T4/T5

 

BTN T2 /I ButtonAutomaticturnontargetmode

/O ShkvalWideView7x

BTN T3 /I ButtonGroundmovingtarget

/O ShkvalNarrowView23x

BTN T4 /I ButtonHead-onairbornetargetaspect

/O /H TVTargetframeDecreasesize

BTN T5 /I ButtonAirbornetarget

/O /H TVTargetframeIncreasesize

 

Rem T6

 

BTN T6 /I ButtonTargetingmodereset

/O /H UncageSHKVAL_designatetarget

 

Rem T7/T8/T9/T10

 

BTN T7 /I

/O ReadjustFreeTurbineRPMtoNominal

BTN T8 /I

/O ReadjustFreeTurbineRPMtoLow

BTN T9 /I

/O /H EngageDescentMode

BTN T10 /I

/O /P Engage/DisengageRouteMode /R Engage/DisengageRouteMode

 

Rem -------------------------------------

Rem Microjoystick/SpotLight

Rem -------------------------------------

 

MIX /I 3 Spotlightleft ^ Spotlightright

/O 6 23 (2 4 6 8 11 14 17 21 25 30 36 43 58 65 71 76 80 84 87 90 93 95 97 98) MSX(3+) MSX(3-) MSX(0)

MIY /I 3 Spotlightdown ^ Spotlightup

/O 6 23 (2 4 6 8 11 14 17 21 25 30 36 43 58 65 71 76 80 84 87 90 93 95 97 98) MSY(3-) MSY(3+) MSY(0)

 

Rem T1

 

BTN T1 /I /H MOUSE_RB

/O /H MOUSE_LB

 

Rem Setup the mouse onto the microstick. You can increase the values

Rem in the brackets to make the mouse more responsive.

 

Rem USE MICROSTICK AS MOUSE (11, 3, 1)

[Kuky]

BTN H3U /I KD(X9) DLY(200) KU(X9)

/O KD(X8 ) DLY(200) KU(X8 )

 

DEF X10 DELAY(500) H3U AND S3

DEF X11 DELAY(500) H3U AND NOT S3

DEF X12 NOT H3U AND X8

DEF X13 NOT H3U AND X9

 

BTN X10 Trimmerreset

BTN X11 /H Trimmer

BTN X12 HoverOn/Off

BTN X13 Wheelbrakeparking

 

This works because instead of defining a logical flag as combination of pressed buttons, you created a temporarily (200ms long) logical flags (X8 and X9) that are used later to define 4 other logical conditions (X10 to X13).

 

You used the 2 flags X8 and X9 to be true for 200ms when you press H3U key, one is with combination of S3 button and one without.

 

So then 4 other flags are defines to say, when you press and release H3U button, if you quickly release it (less than 200ms), flag X8 is still true and H3U button is not pressed, this satisfies flag X12. If you do the same (press and quick release of H3U) while S3 is pressed also, then condition for logical flag X13 is satisfied.

 

On the other hand, if you press and hold for more than 200ms button H3U, in 200ms the flax X8 is not true but H3U is true, so this satisfies logical condition X11. And again doing the same (press and hold H3U) with combination of S3 button, satisfies logical condition X11.

 

In short

 

press and relase H3U quickly... X12 is satisfied

press and relase H3U quickly with S3 button... X13 is satisfied

press and hold H3U... X10 is satisfied

press and hold H3U with S3 button ... X11 is satisfied

 

So basically, you use these flags X8 and X9 to create logic for short and long button release... and yes it works... I just checked my profile and I am using same logic to program short and long press buttons.

[Fakum]

Hmm,, great explanation indeed! Getting my head wrapped around this a bit. So now, I am guessing I used 8 and 9 because they were available (not used elsewhere or defined). I hope I see the finish line now, so heres the big question, it seems now that I could have used ANY number as long as it wasn't being used, and it would still work. In other words I could go in and change all the 8 references to say 90 and it would still work the same, correct?

[Kuky]

correct... provided the Foxy software allows going up to 90 logical flags. I think there is a limit but I forgot as to how many... maybe 42 or so.. you can actually try this (keep increasing the X number and when it gives you an error you got the limit :)

[Fakum]

Thanks, yeah, I thing the limit is 99,, I will try this indeed and report back later today,, thanks for the explanation,, it seems I am making progress here,,

[Fakum]

Resolved! so it does appear that you can use any random number, as long as falls within the allocated range, and it is not already utilized, and it is already not defined. I'm not clear on the exact range yet, but it did not take any number from 50 to 99, so I experimented with replacing all references to X9 and replaced with X30 and X40 and they operation functioned appropriately. Thanks for the help indeed! Rep inbound,,, you helped tremendously!

[Fakum]

Still use Foxy but never really understood the entire DX thing...

So i make all my profiles without them.

 

Lang, I dont care much for the Logical flags either, but at the time, it seemed to be he way to do what I wanted, I never got my head wrapped around any other method. With that being said, perhaps you can steer me in another direction? For example, see the current line below. I am using "T4", with a toggle, which all work perfectly fine. I do want to implement some hold features for adding a function, but not sure how to do it unless I pull my hair out a bit to get it done by means of using logical flags, So for example, here is what I want to accomplish, I want to keep the current "T4" Function intact, but I want to add the feature of holding that button LONG to add the function "Lock Target", how would that syntax look? Thanks

 

Rem T2/T3/T4/T5

 

BTN T2 /I

/O TVTargetframeIncreasesize

BTN T3 /I

/O TVTargetframeDecreasesize

BTN T4 /I

/O /T ShkvalNarrowView23x /T ShkvalWideView7x

BTN T5 /I

/O KU-31Shkvalcenter

[Lange_666]

Since T4 /I isn't used, what's wrong with using that?

 

Like this:

 

BTN T4 /I /H Lock Target

/O /T ShkvalNarrowView23x /T ShkvalNarrowView23x

[Fakum]

Its not used at the moment, but I do have something slated for it. I am revising my old profile, so it is all work in progress. I spent some time reading today, I cant figure out how to keep that button as a toggle, and then adding a hold function? My brain was racked trying to figure out the toggle using logical flags,, that why I am trying to see if it would be simpler the other way?

[Fakum]

no thoughts on how that can be done?

[Lange_666]

Not by me, i'm not a logical flagger...:joystick:

[Fakum]

Exactly why I asked you LOL,,, I was asking you how to do it without using logical flags,,, right now, I got rid of he toggle and have everything implemented using logical flags, I had to sacrifice the toggle feature as I could not figure out how to do it with logical flags, so my question still stands for you,, how do you create that function WITHOUT logical flags? Thanks

[Lange_666]

You can ask me that a zillion times if you want but I don't know.

I really don't. If i would i would tell you, honestly.

I never had the need for a more complex setup, at least not for the planes i'm flying.

The only thing i try to do is keep all my profiles as much as common for each aircraft as possible besides the "special" stuff. And before you link "special" to "complex" programming, that is not what i'm talking about. Special in my case are things that are uncommon in other aircraft.

 

Tip: Ask Kuky...

 

Question: If you find a solution, please share...i'm interrested...:smartass:

[Fakum]

LOL.. then I misunderstood you,, my bad,, I thought you would know how to do this as long as it was not in the "Logical Flag" sense. Thanks for the help anyway,, so far, All I could do is Logical, and thats without any toggles,,,, :}

[Kuky]

Something like this (replace logical flags with ones not used in your profile)

 

BTN T4 (KD(X1) DLY(200) KU(X1))

DEF X2 DELAY(500) T4

DEF X3 (X1 NOT T4 NOT X5)

DEF X4 (X1 NOT T4 AND X5)

BTN X2 /I

/O LockTarget

BTN X3 /I

/O /P ShkvalNarrowView23x /R DLY(60) KD(X5)

BTN X4 /I

/O /P ShkvalWideView7x /R DLY(60) KU(X5)

 

I left the /I and /O in there if you want to add more things when S3 is presses, if you don't use it you can delete the /I and /O out of the code

[Fakum]

AHHH! I will have to try this indeed! here is where I failed in my attempt:

 

"R DLY(60) KD(X5)"

 

Thanks Kuky, I will report back in a few days when I get a chance to implement it,,,,

[Fakum]

Just got a chance to implement this, works great! Thanks. Im up to 30 flags so far and Have more changes to make,, hope I dont run short of flags :} Thanks a million!

[Kuky]

I'm sure you'll run out of ideas how to use all the flags, before you run out of flags :D

[Fakum]

Yeah, thats what I am hoping as well. I originally started flying the KA-50 years ago, then I went with A10C, decided to stay with the A10C with the occasional KA-50. Since my original profile for the KA-50 was no where near the same as the A10C profile, and there are some similarities between commands. I am converting my KA-50 profile to come as close as possible to the similar commands of the A10C so I dont have to struggle so much with muscle memory. Im making out fairly well at this point thanks to you,,,