MiG 21 vs modern fighters

[ttaylor0024]

Same with me, I tend to call Rifle a lot.

 

That was smooth as far as mechanics go. Was a nice splash. R-3Rs are wonderful. I think ill call them slammers instead. Seem more reliable than the Aim-120 right now lol.

 

Glad to see you guys are as addicted to this as much as I am.

 

So far I could probably count on one hand the amount of R-3Rs that missed on one hand, and that includes the ones I fired with a bad solution.

 

The next few days is going to be rough, have to get the house ready for a graduation party and write papers... Going to go through withdraw

[GGTharos]

Did your targets use chaff or ECM? If so, then this needs fixing.

 

So far I could probably count on one hand the amount of R-3Rs that missed on one hand, and that includes the ones I fired with a bad solution.

[ttaylor0024]

Did your targets use chaff or ECM? If so, then this needs fixing.

 

No clue, but I usually don't fire until I'm in good range, kinda like not firing an AMRAAM at 15nm. Besides, chaff is useless if you don't manuever when using it.

Edited December 10, 2014 by ttaylor0024

[scaflight]

Of all these videos here, are -any- of the Eagles deploying countermeasures? It has been a recurring thing that I've been wondering about, but I just wrote it down to my eyesight being bad.

[Why485]

R-3Rs are essentially radar guided Sidewinders, so I imagine they would be highly maneuverable, and at this close of a range a SARH missile would be highly reliable due to the very strong radar reflection. The guidance might be a little too good though, see this shot in particular where I didn't even see my target, I just followed my missiles crazy path in.

 

As for deploying countermeasures, I can't recall any F-15s dropping them.

I know I've had MiG-21 drop countermeasures when defending against me, but those are also the planes that got away from me because they blocked my line of sight rather than dodged a missile.

 

The thing with most of my kills is that they are radar off IR shots, so they don't see anything coming unless they physically see me launch the missile and if I've done my job right they won't even know that I'm there. Of my three most recent kills, they've all been IR and only the Flanker knew I was there because he merged with me.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Why485

[GGTharos]

No, neither R-3Rs nor 'old sidewinders' should resemble anything that's highly maneuverable. They weren't weapons meant to be used against fighters.

 

They should also be very sensitive to countermeasures, because old :) These old missiles should make you curse at them every time CMs are deployed. You're lucky they're not just dropping dead off the pylons :)

[ttaylor0024]

As for deploying countermeasures, I can't recall any F-15s dropping them.

I know I've had MiG-21 drop countermeasures when defending against me, but those are also the planes that got away from me because they blocked my line of sight rather than dodged a missile.

 

But even with that video, the countermeasures weren't deployed between the missile and the aircraft, but off to the side, so the missile is still likely to hit. It takes a pretty good reflex time in order to defeat a MiG-21 shot because of the short distance and high speed of the missiles

 

No, neither R-3Rs nor 'old sidewinders' should resemble anything that's highly maneuverable. They weren't weapons meant to be used against fighters.

 

Not true, the R-3R is a medium-to-late Vietnam era copy of the AIM-9.

Edited December 10, 2014 by ttaylor0024

[GGTharos]

Yes true. They shouldn't have anywhere near the maneuvering capability of an AIM-9J, never mind a 9L/M. You should be able to defeat them with a 5g out-of-plane jink.

 

R-13M on the other hand should be much more maneuverable.

 

Not true, the R-3R is a medium-to-late Vietnam era copy of the AIM-9.

Edited December 10, 2014 by GGTharos

[104th_Cobra]

Gents, if you are not using Teamspeak, you should. Jump on the 104th TS, IP 50.197.62.13:9987, password: "phoenix"; you can choose a channel only for you, if you want.

 

Also, read and get used with section and flight/division tactics, 2 vs 1, 2 vs 2 (brackets/pincers, hooks or stingers, drag'n'bags, crossovers, ... etc, etc). Know how to use horizontal and vertical separation, when searching and in the merge.

 

...Also need to figure out how to record skype audio alongside the game...

[Revan]

Gents, if you are not using Teamspeak, you should. Jump on the 104th TS, IP 50.197.62.13:9987, password: "phoenix"; you can choose a channel only for you, if you want.

 

Also, read and get used with section and flight/division tactics, 2 vs 1, 2 vs 2 (brackets/pincers, hooks or stingers, drag'n'bags, crossovers, ... etc, etc). Know how to use horizontal and vertical separation, when searching and in the merge.

 

 

not quite sure this is the right thread you posted in.

[Darkwolf]

You're lucky they're not just dropping dead off the pylons

 

 

They do when you turn. :P

[ttaylor0024]

Yes true. They shouldn't have anywhere near the maneuvering capability of an AIM-9J, never mind a 9L/M. You should be able to defeat them with a 5g out-of-plane jink.

 

R-13M on the other hand should be much more maneuverable.

 

Of course it's not a modern-day sidewinder. The videos shown really don't show te bandit doing any evasive maneuvers though, going back to what I said about needing to manuever as well as use countermeasures in order to defeat a missile (which I've found that 90% of players don't know how to do).

Edited December 10, 2014 by ttaylor0024

[GGTharos]

Agreed. If the target isn't evasive they're pretty much asking for it.

[ff4life4]

Almost 90% of the F-15s/Su-27s Ive fired at don't do any hard maneuvers.

 

Now for Flares, I don't know anything about R-3S, but for the R-13m1 and my R-60M, they just chase flares like no tomorrow. If someone is flaring, they are useless..

 

Edit: This happened when I got my first gunkill. None of my R-60Ms hit because he was flaring every second. However by doing that he left a nice path in the sky for me to get close to and use guns

Edited December 10, 2014 by ff4life4

[lucien]

Almost 90% of the F-15s/Su-27s Ive fired at don't do any hard maneuvers.

 

Now for Flares, I don't know anything about R-3S, but for the R-13m1 and my R-60M, they just chase flares like no tomorrow. If someone is flaring, they are useless..

 

Edit: This happened when I got my first gunkill. None of my R-60Ms hit because he was flaring every second. However by doing that he left a nice path in the sky for me to get close to and use guns

 

Yes this is why I stopped using IR altogether. Wonder what would happen if more players used chaff...

 

They do when you turn. :P

 

:cry: oh yes they do

 

Gents, if you are not using Teamspeak, you should. Jump on the 104th TS, IP 50.197.62.13:9987, password: "phoenix"; you can choose a channel only for you, if you want.

 

Also, read and get used with section and flight/division tactics, 2 vs 1, 2 vs 2 (brackets/pincers, hooks or stingers, drag'n'bags, crossovers, ... etc, etc). Know how to use horizontal and vertical separation, when searching and in the merge.

 

Well thank you, sir.

 

 

 

Not a bad flight today with lucien. Overall we went 1:2 trying out new tactics. Also need to figure out how to record skype audio alongside the game...

 

Yes this was quite fun, even though I got shot down :P

[ff4life4]

Yes this is why I stopped using IR altogether. Wonder what would happen if more players used chaff...

 

I have thought about not taking any IR, but I just can't get myself to do it. IR, despite its drawbacks of being easily fooled, is a great ambush weapon, and for me, the only thing that works after a merge. I'd say 70% of my kills were with R-3R, and the other 20% that were IR could have been R-3R, but there have been those 3 or 4 merges where the agile R-60M made the difference.

 

Also IR is great for sneak attacks. Sometimes if I get a visual on a person, ill go radar off, then stalk them until I get in R-60 range, they never see it coming. Although I debate whether just turning radar on at last second and firing R-3R would be just as effective.

 

But I usually fire 2 R-3R's at a plane to make sure they go down, I've had times where 1 won't get a solid hit and the aircraft will limp around a little. I usually get one plane and run home to get more R-3R's, but I debate now in just taking 4 R-3Rs and leaving the Gun for the close dogfight stuff.

 

EDIT: I just realied i write a book almost every time i post here

 

EDIT 2: And i'm not sure how effective chaff would be at the ranges we are engaging and shooting them at.

[Why485]

The total unreliability of locking a target once any maneuvering starts to happen is what prevents me from taking 100% R-3Rs. Even using the beam mode isn't a reliable way to target, and if you use beam mode you have no way of checking if your target is friendly or not because if I remember right (hopefully I'm remembering wrong) the IFF check doesn't work after lock, only during scan.

[ff4life4]

I have never been able to use the fixed beam mode to lock a target. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

 

But your right if the target is doing extreme maneuvering, it's very difficult to get or maintain a lock.

 

And yes target ID has been a problem. I HATE how some servers have both f15s and su27s on both teams. It requires me to iff them. And I have had severe hesitations in a furball about who I can shoot or not. It sucks. But I understand their reasoning in order to have balance.

 

Idc about a10s being on both because they are always in their kill boxes.

 

And I always take 2 double racks of r-60s. 4 R-60s and 2 r3r gives me some flexability. And have 4 r-60s should be enough to sneak one in for a kill..plus they look awesome in their double pylons

 

Edit.. and you remember right. Only iff during scan.

[Darkwolf]

IFF don't run well in scan mode. I have a friendly fire due to this.

 

I also nearly shot a friendly today but I lost the target. hopefully I found out he was friendly:smartass:

 

For now, I shoot first, ask question later. SA is very important. Don't hesitate to text while engaging jammed targets.

[ff4life4]

For me IFF has been 100% reliable. And if a target is jamming I'll spam filters till I can see them, and then I can iff them

[ff4life4]

Shooting first asking later is normally a quick way to get banned lol. That's why I'm hesitant unless im positive it's enemy.

[Why485]

The jamming filter works extraordinarily well and so do IFF checks during jam. It makes jamming practically ineffective against the MiG-21. The only reason to not just fly with the jam filter on 100% of the time is because locking non-jamming targets becomes more difficult because you can't move the locking gate.

 

When locking a jamming target, it doesn't matter where the lock gate is, which is why it locks it in place with that filter on. To lock a non-jamming target, you have to specifically put the cursor over them, and because of that I've had trouble locking non-jamming targets with the filter active.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Why485

[ff4life4]

I've noticed the same thing as well. Jamming targets don't need to be in locking gate, but need to be in line with it generally.

 

Jamming really makes fighters stand out like really easily. Not sure why people feel the need to do it constantly. It has times where its useful, but it also just turns on a flashing billboard

[ttaylor0024]

I've noticed the same thing as well. Jamming targets don't need to be in locking gate, but need to be in line with it generally.

 

Jamming really makes fighters stand out like really easily. Not sure why people feel the need to do it constantly. It has times where its useful, but it also just turns on a flashing billboard

 

The best time to use it is after you're already discovered in BVR, otherwise it's a big "Kill Me" sign. Didn't know that about the locking gate on jamming targets though, I never even pressed lock until it was inside... haha

 

As far as the loadout goes, I usually take 2 R-60 and 2 R-3R. I thought about taking the double racks, but my R-3Rs fall off all the time from maneuvering anyway (INCREDIBLY annoying), so I doubt the chances of a double rack staying on the aircraft for me, plus I really never find myself in a dogfight at all, usually it's R-3R and goodnight. Most of the time I only launch one and see how it explodes, my reasoning is that if it does hit then he's either going to be dead or so injured he may as well be dead, leaving me with another shot if needed on someone else.

[ff4life4]

I need to learn to resist the urge to fire 2 in a row. Just it gets intense during the engagements, just need to remember to relax a bit more.

 

IIRC, I have had the R-3Rs fall off before the double R-60s. But anyway, if you pull enough G's to pull the missiles off, I really believe your over G'ing the airplane. But I'm not 100% sure I need to refer to the manual.

 

And normally its one (or two) r-3rs and done but for some reason I have ended up merging with the enemies more, and having to resort to IR missiles when they hit the deck and I can't get a lock on them due to ground clutter. And if they are maneuvering like crazy I have only been able to successfully use the R-60 on them. Can't get a succesfull lock and hold it with the radar if they are jumping around