Bent RSBN Needle?

[BBQ]

This might be a bit nit-picky :music_whistling:, but when practicing the "box" approach around an aerodrome, I've been really trying to nail it perfectly. In the process, I've noticed on the NPP, that the RSBN needle seems a tad bent -- see screenshot below -- shouldn't it rather resemble the "fixed" version?

 

[Cobra847]

You're being tricked by the perspective, as well as your green line is not actually in line with the direction of the needle (not parallel with the tail).

 

The needle is one unit, and it is perfectly straight. :)

[Art-J]

BBQ, if head points at 75 degrees, then the tail should point at 75 + 180 = 255 degrees, which, as I can see on the "current" screen, it does :D.

[iFoxRomeo]

This might be a bit nit-picky :music_whistling:, but when practicing the "box" approach around an aerodrome, I've been really trying to nail it perfectly. In the process, I've noticed on the NPP, that the RSBN needle seems a tad bent -- see screenshot below -- shouldn't it rather resemble the "fixed" version?

 

No.

 

What is the opposite course of 075°?

Right, it is not 259° as seen in the "fixed" version.

It is 255°, as shown in the "current" version.

 

Fox

 

Edit: :gun_sniper:

Edited November 22, 2014 by iFoxRomeo
Sniped

[BBQ]

Ok, should have explained better -- the tail of the needle is offset. That is to say, the tail of the needle should be where it is in the "Fixed" image. I drew a straight dotted line to indicate where the tail should be, since the needle itself is not a solid line.

 

The "Fixed" view, is a result of my efforts in Photoshop, erasing where the tail is in the "Current" image, and creating a new tail in the "fixed" image.

 

As to the tilted perspective -- it was originally flat -- I put that effect on the image as I thought it better communicated the point. It looks just as bad in the original (flat) image.

 

However, it just occurred to me that it could be the "pointy end", to borrow a phrase from Aria Stark, that is offset. At any rate, either the tail or the head of the needle is offset.

[BBQ]

This may be a better way to put it:

 

I challenge anyone to draw a straight line from the tail of the needle to it's head, showing exactly 180 degrees. Feel free to take your own screenshot -- just no Photoshopping!

 

I admit that as currently implemented, the head points where its supposed to, and so does the tail (e.g., 075 for head and 255 for tail) -- my issue is that it is not a straight line between the two headings on the compass rose. You can even take the RSBN needle out of the equation -- I think it's a problem with the rose itself.

 

 

You're being tricked by the perspective, as well as your green line is not actually in line with the direction of the needle (not parallel with the tail).

 

The needle is one unit, and it is perfectly straight. :)

Edited November 22, 2014 by BBQ

[Cobra847]

This may be a better way to put it:

 

I challenge anyone to draw a straight line from the tail of the needle to it's head, showing exactly 180 degrees. Feel free to take your own screenshot -- just no Photoshopping!

 

Your image is not flat. Your perspective is from an upper quarter view (as evidenced by the parallax displacement.

 

I'll one up you and show you an image taken in max of the isolated needle and gauge face. :)

 

[golani79]

I challenge anyone to draw a straight line from the tail of the needle to it's head, showing exactly 180 degrees. Feel free to take your own screenshot -- just no Photoshopping!

 

It looks pretty straight to me - sry for not pointing exactly 180° but I took the screenshot directly after spawn.

 

Edited November 22, 2014 by golani79

[PiedDroit]

In the 3d reprentation, the circle in the middle may not be at the same level as the needle, which gives a little parallax error.

Anyway:

[Art-J]

Hmmm.... The more I look at the first screenshot and corresponding OP's post, the less I understand what the guy's issue is :D. Especially when green dotted line is so out of line with needle's head even Stevie Wonder would notice it.

[golani79]

Yeah .. his lines are pretty out of line ..

[BBQ]

I had to get back into the cockpit to see what had been nagging at me about the needle -- I've been practicing "box" approaches -- and then I remembered -- it was the fact that when the needle lines up perfectly on the 3rd turn indicator, it doesn't line up with the 2nd turn on the other side -- but perhaps it's not supposed to? I guess my whole gripe is based on the assumption that the "2" turn indicators are supposed to be perpendicular to their "3" turn indicators counterparts.

 

The whole reason I questioned it -- I kept coming up short on my turn to final (e.g., left hand turn to final, runway was always a fair amount off my nose to the right). I was nailing the speed and bank requirements on the button, but still kept coming up short.

 

[BBQ]

Nick,

 

Thanks for putting that up -- indeed, it's straight as an arrow. Somewhere in the back of my non-geometric mind, I wanted the 2 and 3 turn indicators to line up, thinking there was some beautifully perfect math behind the "box" method -- looks like I committed the worst sin of the scientific method by trying to force my theory on reality instead of the other way around :)

 

Apologies for the waste of everyone's time!

 

Your image is not flat. Your perspective is from an upper quarter view (as evidenced by the parallax displacement.

 

I'll one up you and show you an image taken in max of the isolated needle and gauge face. :)

 

[PiedDroit]

I remember having the same kind of interrogation back in the beginning, but the manual helped me to picture the box correctly, this:

[Art-J]

I wonder if indicators are painted in a way so they line up with arrow when you look at it from more or less perpendicular direction (possible in the sim, with TrackIR), or when you look at it from typical pilot's point of view (only option possible in RL), i.e. was parallax error counted in when somebody designed these markings. Maybe that's the reason why BBQ keeps coming short on final turn?

 

I played box tutorial only twice, so I didn't investigate this question so thoroughly.

[Flagrum]

I wonder if indicators are painted in a way so they line up with arrow when you look at it from more or less perpendicular direction (possible in the sim, with TrackIR), or when you look at it from typical pilot's point of view (only option possible in RL), i.e. was parallax error counted in when somebody designed these markings. Maybe that's the reason why BBQ keeps coming short on final turn?

 

I played box tutorial only twice, so I didn't investigate this question so thoroughly.

I would bet they are aligned for viewing from a perpendicular viewpoint (i.e. the " 'natural' engineering approach" as the mechanics are concerned). Those are standard off-the-shelf devices that are used in different cockpits in different positions and it would be highly unpracticable to build them specifically for each and every aircraft.

[BBQ]

Finally, the lightbulb goes off! Indeed, should have seen that myself -- you only fly 5 or 7 km away from station before first turn, but when you make you're 4th turn, you're well past 10 km from station. Thanks!

 

I remember having the same kind of interrogation back in the beginning, but the manual helped me to picture the box correctly, this: