which rotary for endless twists left/right?? pls help!!

[LNR212]

Hi!

 

As above, which rotary controllers should I use for example a heading bug.

 

E.g. twist left -> heading bug decrease, twist right -> heading increase.

 

How are those rotary controller called or what type do I have to search for?

 

Many thanks in advance!

 

:thumbup:

[Ktulu2]

The only type of sensor that alows infinite twist are servo motors, but I have no idea of how you'd use them...But what do you want to do exacly? Do you only want something to set your heading? If so you do not need infinite turn, just 360 degrees, and that is if you want a fully proportional controller.

[Thick8]

They are called rotary encoders. You will have to have a board that can "read" that type of switch; like a Bodnar board (the simplest to set up) or some other programmable variety.

[agrasyuk]

Depends what encoder you using. If it is the cheap 2 phase quadrature encoders (ebay) then you can configure Bodnar's card to interpret the signals. If you using 3 or more phase encoders then IMHO most optimal solution is using something like arduino and write your own code to interpret the input.

[Bushmanni]

I think he means something like a mousewheel which gives pulses for "button1" when rotated in one direction and pulses for "button2" for the another direction. Doing this with rotary encoder is overly complicated.

[agrasyuk]

I think he means something like a mousewheel which gives pulses for "button1" when rotated in one direction and pulses for "button2" for the another direction. Doing this with rotary encoder is overly complicated.

You just described an ordinary incremental rotary encoder. Nothing overly complicated there, and can be solved in more then one way. But to better answer OP's question of which controller to use its good to know what encoder he will be using

[Hansolo]

Incremental rotary encodes aren't that complicated. Its all in the software to enterpret which direction you are turning. As Agrasyuk says it can be written in Arduino code or it can be done e.g. with a Leo Bodnar (LB) card as LB has some configuration software that can set up two inputs to handle a encoder.

 

With regard to the type of incremental rotary encoders they can as already stated be found on Ebay or if going for the LB solution they also sell them. The type LB are selling can be found cheaper at e.g. Mouser though and cheaper types are available at Ebay.

 

Cheers

Hans

[LNR212]

thanks for help so far...

 

i already use some leo bodnars panels (BU0836X) and have already connected potis and rotaries.

 

and i already tried 360° rotaries without stop together with helios, but it reacts like a joystick-input and when i reached 99% (359°) it suddenly jumps to 0-position back... (i hope you know what i mean) and it would be perfect to not use helios therefore.

 

when i was in flightschool and on rating, we also had those ("cheaper") FNPT II-sims, which are better home-pits. and there were also some little rotaries for headingbug, cdi, alt and so on...

so i am just curios, but there must be an easy solution for this to use it for DCS and XP10.

 

yeah, like Bushmanni said, maybe something like a mousewheel would be perfect. for example right-turns are incrementing heading bug. so every little twist is a "do-command" like a switch?!

 

thanks

[agrasyuk]

 

and i already tried 360° rotaries without stop together with helios, but it reacts like a joystick-input and when i reached 99% (359°) it suddenly jumps to 0-position back... (i hope you know what i mean) and it would be perfect to not use helios therefore.

no, i'm not quite sure what do you mean.

what encoders are you using? incremental quadrature ones (like these. pretty good deal BTW) don't report exact position, but amount of displacement pulses and their direction, so no degrees there. absolute encoders (like this 16 position, 4bit one) report exact position of the encoder and AFAIK are not used with LB cards.

how are you mapping it in Helios?

 

if all fails you can try and write a script with autohotkey that will read raw inputs from your encoder, analyse and translate it into keystrokes to displace the heading bug.

Edited November 26, 2014 by agrasyuk

[FSFIan]

and i already tried 360° rotaries without stop together with helios, but it reacts like a joystick-input and when i reached 99% (359°) it suddenly jumps to 0-position back... (i hope you know what i mean) and it would be perfect to not use helios therefore.

 

Isn't that exactly what you want to happen? If your heading bug is at 359 and you rotate one degree to the right, it should point at 360 = 0 degrees, right? Or are you describing the behaviour of your controller board here?

 

What happened when you tried with helios and what would you want to happen instead?

[Bushmanni]

I have a suspicion that OP is actually asking what kind of rotary encoder to use to get the mousewheel like function.

[zaelu]

and i already tried 360° rotaries without stop together with helios, but it reacts like a joystick-input and when i reached 99% (359°) it suddenly jumps to 0-position back... (i hope you know what i mean) and it would be perfect to not use helios therefore.

 

If I understand you correctly this is not a problem of the Encoder but of DCS module you are using. I also have a Bodnar board with encoders and they behave similar to your description in some modules.

 

But as far as I know this is a collection of bugs in the corresponding lua files that defines those switches. Example:

 

DCS Mi-8mtv2 by Belsimtek has a rotary switch for pylons setup in copilot position (big box over the windshield top right corner). That rotary used to go "over the top" but now (after last update I think that stated some rotaries will not go ad infinitum anymore) it just locks in a position and is not unlocking every time unless you put the mouse over it.

 

I don't know how to solve these problems and they are annoying to me also but for sure they are not caused by the encoders.

[xray20]

I'm try to do exactly the same as you at the same time (small world..) I'm using rotary incremental encoders (EC12E24204A9) on one of the the rotary inputs of a Hagstrom KE108-USB controller.

 

It programs up OK and I get the letter codes for the clockwise and anti clockwise turns (I chose C and V) writing OK in notepad. But it doesn't work on the heading bug for the HSI.

If I press C and V on the keyboard the heading bug moves as expected.

 

I can only think that the 'keypress duration' coming out of the KE108 is too short to register in DCS.

You may have more luck with your controller.

 

I cant think of anything else to try to get the encoder to work.

Im going to try a momentary switch and program C and V on each of the poles of the switch. Its clunky (and much more expensive - I need about 20). I dont get the nice rotary action I want, but it may work OK.

 

Matt

[LNR212]

Hey Guys,

 

Sorry for late reply... Work...

 

OK, first of all, I do not want to use helios again. So there should be an solution without it. (if possible)

 

All I want is to build a rotary where turning right is "+" and turning left is "-".

 

I already tried (with helios, long time ago) some rotaries with no stop. But they were acting as a joystick in windows and when I made one full revolution (on the rotary-knob) and I was at max (100%), it suddenly jumped back to zero. Imagine: you turn the heading bug from 0 to 30 degrees with one full turn of the knob, and instead of turning further to 31 degrees, it jumped back to zero instead of 31 degrees and more.

 

Omg, I understand if you are all confused now ;-)

 

Please just tell me what type of hardware I need to make the heading bug and similar to work as it should.

 

I would like to use it in DCS a10c and for heading and cdi and my planes in x-plane 10 for the same + altitudeselector.

 

I think the easiest would be to act like a mousewheel, but every other solution would be also fine.

 

And if there would be some software tweaking, please show me step by step, cause im no programmer/coder.

 

Using Lb is no problem for me, I already installed a original Bell 204 pitch with all working rotaries :-)

[agrasyuk]

What is "rotary with no stop" ? The only thing that could match the behaviour your described is a continous rotation potentiometer connected to analog inputs of LB card. Seems like very strange thing to do :huh:

 

To accomplish your task:

1.Use incremental 2phase rotary encoders like linked above on 2 digital inputs of LB card.

2.Wih the software provided Configure your LB to treat those two inputs as a decoder.

3. Asign corresponding inputs directly in DCS.

 

And BTW, Helios wasn't part of your problem.

Edited November 26, 2014 by agrasyuk

[LNR212]

Please excuse my English and explains...

 

With rotary without stop I mean you can turn and turn and turn and turn and turn...... -> no mechanical stop.

 

Correct, helios is/was not my problem. But I just wanted to explain what I already have tried.

 

So you mean with those kind of rotaries you linked it should be possible? OK, I will try to get some here in Austria and will try my best. Will DCS recognize it as joystick-axis or as button-input?

 

Many thanks for help so far, Anton! And all of you guys!

 

Love this forum... :)

[agrasyuk]

With rotary without stop I mean you can turn and turn and turn and turn and turn...... -> no mechanical stop.

Yes, but you didn't say what hardware you are turning and turning. Inc decoder? Abs encoder? Switch? Potentiometer? Toy car wheel? :) all these can have continuous rotation. By your description it sounds like it was a pot.

 

 

 

When you connect input elements to digital input pins there is no way it will ever be recognized as analog axis. It will act as pair of buttons after you configure it properly ( all you will get otherwise is erratic button twich).

[PureEvil]

Do the encoders have some sort of click or can it be felt by hand when position have changed while rotating? Can 1 encoder be used to replace 2 simple buttons if button matrix is used?

[xray20]

Further to my post above. I have just finished the cockpit build using a Bodnar board and cheap (50c/40pence) encoders and they work fine.

Full 360 degree endless rotation and i have the heading/course bug, QNH, lighting, volume, etc working acceptably.

The only problem is missing precise +/- 1 degree control every time on the HSI, but If I wind back I can usually get the numbers spot on.

 

note, the bodnar board requires pulse width setting (8/16ms) to work correctly with DCS

 

Matt

[Sokol1_br]

Do the encoders have some sort of click or can it be felt by hand when position have changed while rotating? Can 1 encoder be used to replace 2 simple buttons if button matrix is used?

 

A example is the mouse scroll wheel (a encoder), you feel soft clicks when turn.

On a pot' like encoder is the same but the clicks is more "soft".

 

Yes, 1 encoder take 2 buttons on matrix/USB Controller (one for left, one for right).

 

BTW - The encoder inside mouse scroll wheel can be used in USB controllers encoder compatible. Is incremental type.

 

A alternative for non encoder compatible USB controller is use Alpha TW-700079 pulse rotary switch - the first on top - left here:

 

http://www.737ng.co.uk/components.htm

 

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/TW-700079.pdf

Edited January 20, 2015 by Sokol1_br