PLP Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 So, just thought I'd share a little project of mine and seek out some advice on how to go forward: I've been on logitech's Attack 3 for what seems to be forever now, and they have an abyssimal precision, forcing me to use crazy user defined curves for precision flying (refuelling/hovering/formation etc.). Since I don't really have the free $$ for a TM warthog right now, and I like doing stuff myself anyways, I went ahead and built myself a Hall sensor stick. And it turned out to be really cheap and much easier than I thought! Firs I did the articulation in wood (ball bearings are way too luxurious): And the mounted two-axis articulation, held together with epoxy: The Hall sensors (allegro A1324) are then glued (I love epoxy :D) to the rotating axis and static magnets are fixed (duct tape for now, epoxy in final state) to the non-rotating part: All this took a cumulated half day at most. The most sweat I had was with programming the microcontroller. I used a PIC18F4550 (10bit ADC, plenty of pins for buttons, on a 20MHz clock) for which there is thankfully plenty of examples and many people who did the same, so after 2 days or so I have a USB HID joystick that I can pretty much configure at will. (Electric schematics and MPLAB projects I would be happy to share if anyone is interested.) I use a 5V external source since I am afraid of damaging the computer's USB power source, but that is probably an unnecessary precaution. So basically after some duct taping I have a working 2-axis joystick: (the breadboard on the last picture has more electronics than used for this project) The price was about: Wood ~ 5$ Electronics/Magnets: ~20$ (would be much less if I hadn't ordered in the most expensive store of switzerland, country with no reputation for cheap prices.) And after some flight testing I was really amazed at the achieved precision: I can finally land planes without having to trim all the time (I haven't touched the trim since my stick has no springs), my arial gunnery is sooo much better and I can transition a huey through all flight states without having to trim at all, all with absolutely no curves whatsoever. I also was anxious of how the wood-on-wood friction bearing would feel but it is actually fine, and the stick stays in place when let go of which is convenient. I would strongly encourage anyone to build his own stick, it is oddly rewarding, and the pleasure of having a precise joystick is incredible; especially after years of jumpy inaccurate sticks! I know my stick hasn't got the looks, but I tend to look at my screen when I sim, not at the stick ;). So now to the advice seeking part: I will now need a grip with buttons, and I hesitate between maybe some type of foam or carved wood. Any advice? I also want to build a throttle, and was wondering: Should I make it rotating around an axis or translating on a straight line? Any suggestions for sensors for a translating throttle? A collective is also on my todo list. Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any suggestions! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
tommytank Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 Like it; I've been thinking about an unsprung base for my warthog, but was stuck on how I could build a robust gimbal without ferrous metals screwing up any magnetic effect, and how I could provide some kind of damping so there's some resistance without springs. I will follow this thread with interest!
PLP Posted November 28, 2014 Author Posted November 28, 2014 Like it; I've been thinking about an unsprung base for my warthog, but was stuck on how I could build a robust gimbal without ferrous metals screwing up any magnetic effect, and how I could provide some kind of damping so there's some resistance without springs. I will follow this thread with interest! I like the result of the wooden gimball, but it is hard to control friction (and it maybe wont be stable on the longer run). Maybe by making them slightly cone-shaped or introducing chalk or soap to increase/reduce friction one might get a good result (that works on the violin:)). A similar design using plastics might be more suited to your needs. I'm also trying to figure out a way to control friction on my device. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Brisse Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 How about using graphite for decreasing friction?
PLP Posted November 28, 2014 Author Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) How about using graphite for decreasing friction? It might mess the magnetic field used to measure the angle up, although I'm not sure if it would be significant or not. Edit: This effect is very probably negligeable Edited November 28, 2014 by PLP [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Viersbovsky Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) Very nice for a bargain-basement solution. Maybe you can use the handle of your Attack3? I recently got a TM Warthog, and let me tell you, it is not all that it is hyped up to be. The sensor is crazy accurate, handle feels nice, but the gimbal is really flawed - in the end, it is simply a plastic cup scratching on a plastic ball. All the greasing and sanding in the world will not change that fact and the "mechanical accuracy" suffers for it. So, in the end I too have set my mind on building my own stick, and also had the idea of using wood. In the end, I think well and properly used wood incorporating ball-bearings could be applied to make some really nice, sturdy gimbal with really strong springs. It does not have to be all metal. You have ignited a fire in me good Sir, and there is only one cure... :joystick: Gonna drive to home-depot, BRB. Edited November 28, 2014 by Viersbovsky Callsign "Lion"
PLP Posted November 28, 2014 Author Posted November 28, 2014 Maybe you can use the handle of your Attack3? This is actually a good idea, and I might do just that. The button wiring is very probably easy to intercept I guess. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
agrasyuk Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 So now to the advice seeking part: I will now need a grip with buttons, and I hesitate between maybe some type of foam or carved wood. Any advice? I also want to build a throttle, and was wondering: Should I make it rotating around an axis or translating on a straight line? Any suggestions for sensors for a translating throttle? A collective is also on my todo list. Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any suggestions! 1. wouldn't matter 2. wouldn't matter what i would suggest is dumping the duct tape. you could have used wood screws instead. your local hardware store has a lot of very common building materials. check electric and plumbing section for stuff like straps, conduit hangers and pipe fittings ball bearings are dirt cheap actually. here is a lot of 10 pieces for 5$ http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Ball-Bearings-R4Z-5-8-x-1-4-x-196-/181523217986?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item2a43a07e42 you could do better then this if you get it from china. Anton. My pit build thread . Simple and cheap UFC project
FSFIan Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 Love it! Although I have the TM Warthog, the idea of building my own stick for helicopter flying (no springs, large throw) has been on my mind for several weeks now because the comparatively strong spring and the sticktion on the TM Warthog make flying the Huey frustrating for me. Thanks to you, I now have an example of how to do the mechanical part. For the microcontroller, I will probably end up using one of the TI Stellaris Launchpads (predecessor of the Tiva-C Launchpad) that I still have lying around. An ARM may be overkill, but they would gather dust in my parts drawer otherwise and they do have a 12-bit ADC and a USB port in a convenient form factor. As a sensor for a translating throttle I would think about using a fader designed for audio mixers. Those tend to be expensive, but maybe you can find a broken audio mixer somewhere that still has one or more working high-quality linear pots inside. Another solution may be to get one of those cheap digital calipers. There are a lot of hacks on the internet that read one with a microcontroller. IIRC most of these already send the data over a UART to the controller that drives their display, so all you have to do is to connect to the correct pad and parse the protocol (which other people have already documented). DCS-BIOS | How to export CMSP, RWR, etc. through MonitorSetup.lua
PLP Posted November 28, 2014 Author Posted November 28, 2014 what i would suggest is dumping the duct tape. You're right the duct tape is temporary, but I was thinking more along the lines of epoxy (maybe combined with textile) than screws, but both are good solutions IMHO. Screws are naturally more elegant. ball bearings are dirt cheap actually. here is a lot of 10 pieces for 5$ Right again, but now my wood bearings work fine (if it ain't broke don't fix it), but I just might buy some do if I ever build a second version. Ian;2243185'] As a sensor for a translating throttle I would think about using a fader designed for audio mixers. Those tend to be expensive, but maybe you can find a broken audio mixer somewhere that still has one or more working high-quality linear pots inside. Good idea thanks, I hadn't thought of it:thumbup:. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Bazooka Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I too have been thinking about building my own stick and have been toying with the idea of several different set ups but had not thought of a simple box such as yours. Would like to do in something stronger than wood or possibly combine some different materials ie carbon fiber...pvc, aluminum and such. Do think I would want some springs, not for centering but for some feedback/resistance....will be watching for more.
Bazooka Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 The throttle is not an issue for me as I scored an F-15 throttle assembly several years ago on ebay and intend to modify and adapt it for my A-10 pit. It has a better feel and and the levers are closer to the correct height than the TM throttle.
Bucic Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Nice project! Where do you get wood pieces? Where would you get MFD? What epoxy do you recommend apart from poxipol and Distal Rapid? F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls Kill the Bloom - shader glow mod Poor audio Doppler effect in DCS [bug] Trees - huge performance hit especially up close
Pfeil Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Ian;2243185']As a sensor for a translating throttle I would think about using a fader designed for audio mixers. Those tend to be expensive' date=' but maybe you can find a broken audio mixer somewhere that still has one or more working high-quality linear pots inside.[/quote'] Note that "Linear" is the keyword here. Not only the motion should be linear, but the taper as well. Many audio devices will use "Audio" taper pots: Practically speaking, for your application, this would mean moving the throttle to half would only give you slightly less than 20% power in the game, as opposed to the 50% you're expecting.
thebuilder122 Posted January 8, 2021 Posted January 8, 2021 On 1/14/2016 at 4:10 PM, Pfeil said: Quote Ian;2243185']As a sensor for a translating throttle I would think about using a fader designed for audio mixers. Those tend to be expensive' date=' but maybe you can find a broken audio mixer somewhere that still has one or more working high-quality linear pots inside.[/quote'] Note that "Linear" is the keyword here. Not only the motion should be linear, but the taper as well. Many audio devices will use "Audio" taper pots: Practically speaking, for your application, this would mean moving the throttle to half would only give you slightly less than 20% power in the game, as opposed to the 50% you're expecting. I noticed you linked a Potentiometer in your post . Are those the same as Rheostats ? I cant seem to find a difference. Does anyone have a clue ?
Thadiun Okona Posted January 8, 2021 Posted January 8, 2021 1 hour ago, thebuilder122 said: I noticed you linked a Potentiometer in your post . Are those the same as Rheostats ? I cant seem to find a difference. Does anyone have a clue ? Both are variable resisters that serve similar functions and work on the same principal but are not the same thing. Rheostats are used for high voltage and can be used directly with RMS loads (fans, lights, heating elements etc) involving actual current. Potentiometers have higher precision but only rated for very low power and are not used directly on RMS loads unless they are tiny. They are generally only used for signal, not load. Joysticks and other input devices use pots as they req precision and there are no RMS loads.
Recommended Posts