R-27 ET "Anomalies"

[Shaman]

F-15C carebears are already complaining because they get shot down from the sky, cuz we've found the way how to use ET's efficiently.

Truth is ETs do not track until last stage of their straight flight.

 

This missiles are very easy to evade actually. I won't tell you how :D

[Pilotasso]

Well, better add "it doenst give any warning" to that and then youll have to guess. I cant be sure of anything if I know an ET can be fired and track me while Im still trying to get my missiles into NEZ. Otherwise its pointless.

 

Anyway, this wouldnt bother me much if all the migs werent so confident abount chasing down F-15's flying into hordes of 120's without efect. If it did work properly the tactics would be different.

[UWBuRn]

Anyway, this wouldnt bother me much if all the migs werent so confident abount chasing down F-15's flying into hordes of 120's without efect. If it did work properly the tactics would be different.

 

Asso, i agree with you: just finished a test session with a friend and the results are terrifying. I wait to post numbers because i want to test a little more but clearly emerged that the 120 have a too low PK*. Even if my virtual squadron flyes the 15 i switched to the 27 for every non virtual squadron related activities.

 

 

 

*About this i think the problem is not only the 120 but also other rdr missiles have reduced performance. I can accept this on a R-27R but i think that the 120 is too unbalanced and i'm disappointed because this situation is getting worse and worse with every patch ED release. :mad:

[D-Scythe]

Acquire the ET (hardest part), turn off AB, and pop 6-8 flares (so 3-4 pairs) in rapid succession while evading. Usually the first group of flares should do it. If the missile is still tracking you, pop off another 6-8 flares.

 

This is at 100% missile slider.

[capttrob]

Interesting thread...

 

 

Acquire the ET (hardest part),

 

Im still a bit unclear how to acquire an ET. Can you elaborate a bit further? Usually i have zero warning of an ET launch. Although i have developed some techniques for evasion. How do you know when one is launched or tracking you?

[Pilotasso]

Acquire the ET (hardest part), turn off AB, and pop 6-8 flares (so 3-4 pairs) in rapid succession while evading. Usually the first group of flares should do it. If the missile is still tracking you, pop off another 6-8 flares.

 

This is at 100% missile slider.

 

Yeah, the hardest part is knowing when its comming. you can only guess wich is not good.

[Kenan]

F-15C carebears are already complaining because they get shot down from the sky, cuz we've found the way how to use ET's efficiently.

Truth is ETs do not track until last stage of their straight flight.

 

This missiles are very easy to evade actually. I won't tell you how :D

 

I agree. Pilotasso stop complaining and learn to deal with the missile.

It's infra red guided so it's normal u won't get any warning if it's fired at you.

 

Or, do you or other F15c guys want an announcement on global chat every time we are about to fire it?

[GGTharos]

No, we want it to go berserk when fired without a lock, like every other missile with a seeker from that era (including the 9M). There's a reason why these things require LA before they're launched. Currently as is they are too sensitive in the forward hemisphere, and 'sniping' shouldn't even enter into the equation when employing such weapons.

 

Pilotasso is also correct about the gimbals. And the radar missiles (Alhtough most peopel shout 'AMRAAM' ... but the issues affect all the RH missiles)

[capttrob]

I was in a knife fight with a -29S in a vally somewhere near Bullseye on 169th. We both made a few laps to gain advantage on each other's 6 oclock. I was winning the turn battle and eventually got to about his 4-5 oclock position ready to fire my Aim9 once i got tone. Just then i saw a smoke trail come off his wing, make almost a 180 degree turn and blew me to pieces. It was an ET. I thought it was one hellava shot and congratulated the guy for his success. But after reading this thread, can the real ET do this? Attack someone turning into your 6 oclock?

[Kenan]

No, we want it to go berserk when fired without a lock

 

Not if you do it right way, and not if your opponent is flying straight towards it. Also, if your opponent turns tails during the ET launch, the chances of hit are high.

[Pilotasso]

I was in a knife fight with a -29S in a vally somewhere near Bullseye on 169th. We both made a few laps to gain advantage on each other's 6 oclock. I was winning the turn battle and eventually got to about his 4-5 oclock position ready to fire my Aim9 once i got tone. Just then i saw a smoke trail come off his wing, make almost a 180 degree turn and blew me to pieces. It was an ET. I thought it was one hellava shot and congratulated the guy for his success. But after reading this thread, can the real ET do this? Attack someone turning into your 6 oclock?

 

 

never had that happen to me, however what I said about the gimbals limits was that it was too high for the ET to be about 90º off the nose but I dont think it will get to that!!

[Pilotasso]

Not if you do it right way, and not if your opponent is flying straight towards it. Also, if your opponent turns tails during the ET launch, the chances of hit are high.

 

 

How much about fighter technology you know to bring up these brilliant conclusions?!

 

What argument will you use for the ET's ability to see its target 90º off its nose? Just watch the 1st track posted on this thread.

[Kenan]

How much about fighter technology you know to bring up these brilliant conclusions?!

 

What conclusions? One when you're flying dead on towards a heat seeking missile, or when the IR missile is tracking your 6 o' clock?

 

Please explain.

[GGTharos]

Whaddya mean 'not if you do it right way??'

 

It should /happily/ lock onto the first sun glare/reflection or cloud it sees, rather than your target given the sniping ranges.

 

This has /nothing/ to do with what /you/ do to launch the missile, and /everything/ to do with how those IRH seekers work.

 

IRH weapons are NOT good head-on weapons due to serious seeker sensitivity limitations against the forward hemisphere. It isn't until you get to IIRH seekers that you get better head-on performance.

 

/Especially/ the ET's old, old seeker tech.

 

You found a loophole in the game. Congratulations; it's not the only one, and it'll get plugged eventually.

[GGTharos]

What conclusions? One when you're flying dead on towards a heat seeking missile, or when the IR missile is tracking your 6 o' clock?

 

Please explain.

 

His question was pretty specific ... you just need to read the rest of his post.

[capttrob]

never had that happen to me, however what I said about the gimbals limits was that it was too high for the ET to be about 90º off the nose but I dont think it will get to that!!

 

Thanks Pilotasso. Its quite possible he could have kicked the rudder a bit to have me closer to his 2 or 3 oclock during launch, since i was rolling into his 4 or 5. but that ET certainly made quite a turn (and climb since i was a few hundred feet above him at that point). We were so close i didnt have time to react, not to mention i was laughing when i saw him fire from that aspect angle, which turned to shock pretty quick... ;)

[Pilotasso]

What conclusions? One when you're flying dead on towards a heat seeking missile, or when the IR missile is tracking your 6 o' clock?

 

Please explain.

 

You assumed that the maddoged ET will search the sky Like an IR version of the AMRAAM. You cant even tell if the seeker has such a range much less the ability to intelligently search targets.

[GGTharos]

Thanks Pilotasso. Its quite possible he could have kicked the rudder a bit to have me closer to his 2 or 3 oclock during launch, since i was rolling into his 4 or 5. but that ET certainly made quite a turn (and climb since i was a few hundred feet above him at that point). We were so close i didnt have time to react, not to mention i was laughing when i saw him fire from that aspect angle, which turned to shock pretty quick... ;)

 

Have the flares out -before- the launch ... and yeah, ET's shouldn't be behaving like dogfighting missiles which they're not.

[GGTharos]

You assumed that the maddoged ET will search the sky Like an IR version of the AMRAAM. You cant even tell if the seeker has such a range much less the ability to intelligently search targets.

 

Actually, even the AMRAAM would likely -not- be searching RL the same way it does in LO.

 

There was simply no time to implement more complex seeker logic in this case (essentially the real thing's scan rate is likely too slow to cover the airspace it does now in its full gimbal search).

 

By comparison the simple seekers used on the R-60 and the ET (yes, IIRC they do use the same seeker) have no real intelligence and are /barely/ 'all aspect' capable ... just enough to be called that, IIR my facts correctly.

[Pilotasso]

Have the flares out -before- the launch ... and yeah, ET's shouldn't be behaving like dogfighting missiles which they're not.

 

Better said than donne. Untill recently I had timed for my evasions. Since then You can no longer guess when its lauched. By guessing these long range MAddogs you would have to drop flares for extended periods during wich the launch is possible and then youll see that you are desperatly short of enough flares on board to do it.

 

For the R-73 is easy, at 8 miles to target drop flares and it goes nuts as soon as its pilot see LA and shoots. With an ET you can only guess how much anticipation you need, 10, 20 25 seconds? its to0 long to keep droping flares and then if you are unluky enought to be jumped by a second bandit after doing this you can only hope to outmanuver further missiles.

[Shaman]

How do you know when one is launched or tracking you?

You can't. And that's why you should always assume that it has been launched at you and already begin some easy evasive manuvers, like course changes or anything and drop flares. ETs fired without launch auth. fly in straight line. Just keep changing your course. It's that easy.

[capttrob]

Have the flares out -before- the launch ... and yeah, ET's shouldn't be behaving like dogfighting missiles which they're not.

 

Good advice GG. Usually im pretty good with getting some flares out there, but since i was winning the turn battle, i figured i was well out of his seeker ranges and all i was concentrating on was to get a target solution which was immenant. Basically i let my guard down since i felt i had him on his back. Dont think i'll let that happen again.. ;)

[capttrob]

You can't. And that's why you should always assume that it has been launched at you and already begin some easy evasive manuvers, like course changes or anything and drop flares. ETs fired with launch auth. fly in straight line. Just keep changing your course. It's that easy.

 

Thanks shamandog. I usually use a few different techniques when closing head to head. Especially against an opponent that may be carrying ET's. I'll need to fine tune it a bit more. When i first started flying this game, ET's were taking me out left and right. But im getting better at evading them. Was hoping there was more to it regarding warnings. Thanks again....

[D-Scythe]

You assumed that the maddoged ET will search the sky Like an IR version of the AMRAAM. You cant even tell if the seeker has such a range much less the ability to intelligently search targets.

 

Bingo. IR missiles cannot intelligently search for targets at all - it needs to be cued to a heat source to track it. There are just too many heat signatures (clouds, terrain, everything on the terrain, sun, etc.) and there's no way for an IR missile to tell what is a fighter and what is clutter.

 

If maddogged, chances are they'll lock onto the billion and one other heat sources out there. AMRAAM can be maddogged because (at the very least) it can use doppler to track moving targets.

 

Kenan, shamandgg...feeling threatened? :p

[Kenan]

Ok. GG, make sure you ask ED to have ET miss it's dead on (oblivous) target every time when fired from 15-20km range, afterall, that's the only "realistic" outcome.

 

Also make sure Amraam gets powered up, F15C radar range gets an increase, SU-27 uses a slingshot view instead of HUD and R27ER's, break down half the way.

 

In the mean time, we'll stop using ET's cuz it's cheating and we really, I mean really, don't wanna hurt your feelings.

 

Just kidding.