simo1000rr Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 Hello once again guys, I dont know how to describe the issue im having with The F-15 and i don't know know if you guys experienced it but every time when ever im flying the F-15 and i want to do a hard turn or any type of maneuvers the plane feels very resisting like it wants to turn to the opposite direction while if i would do the same movement in the SU-27 it feels so smooth and it follows you where ever you order her to go. Is there something im doing wrong with the F-15 and if so how can i fix it. Im new to the game so i don't know if im describing the issue correctly but its just a heavy resisting force that push the plane to the opposite side . Can someone explain to me what im doing wrong.
razo+r Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 Maybe If you pulled too Hard the stick, you shouldn't do that, If there's another Problem, then sorry i can't help you
simo1000rr Posted December 7, 2014 Author Posted December 7, 2014 No im not pulling too hard , The AoA is barely above 30 degree unless that's considered too hard but once again i did the same thing in the SU-27 and it works fine , Not only that the Su maneuvers at any given speed be it slow or fast .
OB1 Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 Its perfectly normal, The F-15 is not the best maneuvering aircraft around as its more orientated towards speed. The faster you go the less it wants to turn and if you are fully loaded with weapons and fuel its pretty much just a ballistic rocket at high speed and altitude.
TAW_Blaze Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 Its perfectly normal, The F-15 is not the best maneuvering aircraft around as its more orientated towards speed. The faster you go the less it wants to turn and if you are fully loaded with weapons and fuel its pretty much just a ballistic rocket at high speed and altitude. What an absolute lie. Wow. OP: try to separate roll and pitch input. There are some FM issues that haven't been fixed causing the Eagle to end up in a "aileron spin" if you pull hard and roll at the same time. For instance if you want to do a horizontal turn, you would want to bank the plane, wait until the roll stops, then pull. This problem is especially common at high altitude. 1
OB1 Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 What an absolute lie. Wow. To lie one must willfully supply misinformation :) 1
NeilWillis Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 Manoeuvring is always a trade off between speed, altitude and energy. To turn tight you want thick air, low speed, and high energy provided by the engine thrust. Reduce any or all of those parameters, and you'll end up losing turn rates. So to help you with your issues, we would need a lot more info so we can pinpoint what is going wrong. The easy way to provide info is to just save, and post a track, and then we'll be able to pick over the problem and give you more meaningful help. In the meantime, try changing speed, changing altitude, and see what effect those changes make. Getting to grips with advanced flight models like these requires time and careful consideration. Stick at it, and you'll soon find things get more predictable and manageable.
TAW_Blaze Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 To lie one must willfully supply misinformation :) Which you just did. The Eagle is a very maneuverable aircraft. If you want something that can't maneuver, look at the jet on your profile picture, or it's older brother.
OB1 Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) Which you just did. The Eagle is a very maneuverable aircraft. If you want something that can't maneuver' date=' look at the jet on your profile picture, or it's older brother.[/quote'] Ok lets pick apart what I first said. Apart from where I said "its perfectly normal" which is incorrect lets move on... "The F-15 is not the best maneuvering aircraft around" - I actually believe the F-15 is not the most maneuverable aircraft "its more orientated towards speed" - I actually believe the designers designed to maximize speed. "The faster you go the less it wants to turn" - Pretty sure that's correct. "if you are fully loaded with weapons and fuel its pretty much just a ballistic rocket at high speed and altitude" - It actually doesn't turn all that great under those parameters... So if I actually believe all that it means I am not willfully lying ! Edited December 7, 2014 by OB1
TAW_Blaze Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 Ok lets pick apart what I first said. Apart from where I said "its perfectly normal" which is incorrect lets move on... "The F-15 is not the best maneuvering aircraft around" - I actually believe the F-15 is not the most maneuverable aircraft "its more orientated towards speed" - I actually believe the designers designed to maximize speed. "The faster you go the less it wants to turn" - Pretty sure that's correct. "if you are fully loaded with weapons and fuel its pretty much just a ballistic rocket at high speed and altitude" - It actually doesn't turn all that great under those parameters... So if I actually believable all that it means I am not willfully lying ! The problem is you said it's perfectly normal. It isn't. The OP is describing an issue where he tries to pull the plane one way and it always goes the other. You really think that's normal on any jet? It's an FM bug, whenever you mix pitch and roll input the plane goes full retard, sure even when it's fixed you'll be able to stall the plane but what you get now is ridiculous. It's also pretty amusing when you're on top of a loop and instead of gravity pulling the nose down your plane rolls inverted and pitches up to go completely vertical at low airspeed.
OB1 Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 The problem is you said it's perfectly normal. It isn't. The OP is describing an issue where he tries to pull the plane one way and it always goes the other. You really think that's normal on any jet? It's an FM bug, whenever you mix pitch and roll input the plane goes full retard, sure even when it's fixed you'll be able to stall the plane but what you get now is ridiculous. It's also pretty amusing when you're on top of a loop and instead of gravity pulling the nose down your plane rolls inverted and pitches up to go completely vertical at low airspeed. lol Ok ok, I'll accept you picking at that 1 piece of information, fair enough. OP is also trying to compare it to the Su-27 as if it is to be similar or the same in a turn which is not so wise.
simo1000rr Posted December 7, 2014 Author Posted December 7, 2014 Its perfectly normal, The F-15 is not the best maneuvering aircraft around as its more orientated towards speed. The faster you go the less it wants to turn and if you are fully loaded with weapons and fuel its pretty much just a ballistic rocket at high speed and altitude. You didnt get what im trying to explain, I Understand all this about speed and physics being an engineer myself , To give you a clear pic of the issue im experiencing , The plane feels like there is an elephant sitting on the nose of the plane when you want to lift the nose up its just resist you so hard and i tried that at different speed it happens all the time when your angle is above 30 degree. Im sorry if i cant explain it more than that since English is not my native language.
simo1000rr Posted December 7, 2014 Author Posted December 7, 2014 What an absolute lie. Wow. OP: try to separate roll and pitch input. There are some FM issues that haven't been fixed causing the Eagle to end up in a "aileron spin" if you pull hard and roll at the same time. For instance if you want to do a horizontal turn, you would want to bank the plane, wait until the roll stops, then pull. This problem is especially common at high altitude. How can i separate the input of pitch and roll , Im using Joystick so the axis is defined so that if i move the stick right and left it rolls and forward and backward it pitch . I don't know if that's what you meant or you mean something else . please explain . Thank you in advance
OB1 Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 How can i separate the input of pitch and roll , Im using Joystick so the axis is defined so that if i move the stick right and left it rolls and forward and backward it pitch . I don't know if that's what you meant or you mean something else . please explain . Thank you in advance He means separate ailerons and elevator input such that before making a turn roll first then neutral your roll input before pulling up.
simo1000rr Posted December 7, 2014 Author Posted December 7, 2014 lol Ok ok, I'll accept you picking at that 1 piece of information, fair enough. OP is also trying to compare it to the Su-27 as if it is to be similar or the same in a turn which is not so wise. Im only Comparing to the Su -27 just to explain that there is something wrong that im experiencing and to see if any other are experiencing , Im not expecting it to be exactly like the Su , of course not but at lease i expect it to be controllable . Look what it does to me Exactly is that when i try to do lest say a Horizontal right turn it acts like something fixed the plane nose in place and it start spinning right and left that i would have to release the roll a little bit so it can pitch . I dont know if my words make sense.
TAW_Blaze Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 lol Ok ok, I'll accept you picking at that 1 piece of information, fair enough. OP is also trying to compare it to the Su-27 as if it is to be similar or the same in a turn which is not so wise. He's comparing it to the Flanker in the sense that it turns where you want it to turn. You obviously didn't even understand the whole point. How can i separate the input of pitch and roll , Im using Joystick so the axis is defined so that if i move the stick right and left it rolls and forward and backward it pitch . I don't know if that's what you meant or you mean something else . please explain . Thank you in advance Basically to break it down, when you pitch, you want to make sure you either push or pull the stick completely straight without any side pressure. Adding some deadzone can help as it is difficult to keep the stick centered while pulling high G. Other than that, you want to increase G gradually, don't just snap the stick. That combined with no roll input while pulling should get the job done. If you're flying above 25k ft you should be even more careful, especially if you have external tanks (I recommend dropping them if you're preparing to fight above angels 30). If the plane starts to do violent rolls when you pull, you can try a few things: - counter it with rudder (doesn't always work) - let off the stick - combine the two above
simo1000rr Posted December 7, 2014 Author Posted December 7, 2014 He's comparing it to the Flanker in the sense that it turns where you want it to turn. You obviously didn't even understand the whole point. Basically to break it down, when you pitch, you want to make sure you either push or pull the stick completely straight without any side pressure. Adding some deadzone can help as it is difficult to keep the stick centered while pulling high G. Other than that, you want to increase G gradually, don't just snap the stick. That combined with no roll input while pulling should get the job done. If you're flying above 25k ft you should be even more careful, especially if you have external tanks (I recommend dropping them if you're preparing to fight above angels 30). If the plane starts to do violent rolls when you pull, you can try a few things: - counter it with rudder (doesn't always work) - let off the stick - combine the two above Thank you very much , I think you understand exactly what im saying . What you instructed is what i naturally do because it goes into violnce turn to the right and left . i will follow what you said , thank you very much . At least i know that im not doing somthing wrong. :thumbup:
OB1 Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 Im only Comparing to the Su -27 just to explain that there is something wrong that im experiencing and to see if any other are experiencing , Im not expecting it to be exactly like the Su , of course not but at lease i expect it to be controllable . Look what it does to me Exactly is that when i try to do lest say a Horizontal right turn it acts like something fixed the plane nose in place and it start spinning right and left that i would have to release the roll a little bit so it can pitch . I dont know if my words make sense. It makes perfect sense, and I do experience this myself. However try this just for experiment sake. Go into editor put your F-15 down with no weapons and less than 25% fuel and try loading up a turn under 500km/h. Don't jerk the stick to achieve your desired AoA just gently load up into the turn and you should feel rather stable and controllable, then work your way up in speed and weight/fuel and loadout and notice the different. However that being said as Blaze said the FM is not the best, all you can do for the moment is try to understand the quirk and control it.
OB1 Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 You obviously didn't even understand the whole point. You nasty :D
TAW_Blaze Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 You nasty :D Excuse me, the "it's normal" sentence just totally broke my mind. Could have been a bit more civilized.
simo1000rr Posted December 7, 2014 Author Posted December 7, 2014 It makes perfect sense, and I do experience this myself. However try this just for experiment sake. Go into editor put your F-15 down with no weapons and less than 25% fuel and try loading up a turn under 500km/h. Don't jerk the stick to achieve your desired AoA just gently load up into the turn and you should feel rather stable and controllable, then work your way up in speed and weight/fuel and loadout and notice the different. However that being said as Blaze said the FM is not the best, all you can do for the moment is try to understand the quirk and control it. thank you very much , I will try doing that as well once i get home from work, But bare with me one more question since my PC knowledge isn't as you guys , When you refer to the FM not being good , Isnt FM has to do with Radio signal and such , what it has to do with the control.
TAW_Blaze Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 thank you very much , I will try doing that as well once i get home from work, But bare with me one more question since my PC knowledge isn't as you guys , When you refer to the FM not being good , Isnt FM has to do with Radio signal and such , what it has to do with the control. FM = flight model.
falcon_120 Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) OP: try to separate roll and pitch input. There are some FM issues that haven't been fixed causing the Eagle to end up in a "aileron spin" if you pull hard and roll at the same time. For instance if you want to do a horizontal turn, you would want to bank the plane, wait until the roll stops, then pull. This problem is especially common at high altitude. +1 Edited December 7, 2014 by falcon_120
AceRevo Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 Does the real Eagle really got a deadzone of 1inch on both axis? Ive allways been flying with no deadzone but will experiment with some now.. X-55 profile for the F-15C
GGTharos Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 It's not a deadzone, it's 'reduced sensitivity' for 1" on both axis, with respect to the stick's zero force reference (ie. the position that the stick has been trimmed to). Does the real Eagle really got a deadzone of 1inch on both axis? Ive allways been flying with no deadzone but will experiment with some now.. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Recommended Posts