Su-27 vs MiG-21/R-3R Missile

[ruddy122]

Hi,

 

I've been tinkering with the Mission Editor on a User Created Mission Campaign for the Su-27 and I wanted an opinion on the MiG-21's R-3R capability FC3.

 

Su-27 has the R-27ER/R-73 and the MiG-21 has an R-2S and R-3R

 

It happens when it is a 2 vs 1 scenario where I launch the R-27ER around 14km and begin to crank away from the formation for SARH Guidance til impact. I then switch to Close Combat Mode (BORE) to engage the MiG-21 wingman head on with an R-73. At 4-5km I launch an R-73 head on and the MiG-21 fires the R-3R at the same time. I perform a hard break perpendicular to the MiG-21 with chaff but the R-3R guides and impacts the Su-27.

 

I believe my tactics are the root cause but also asking if the R-3R is that maneuverable in real life. I'll post the mission track shortly.

 

Thanks,

 

Lucky

[Ironhand]

Hi,

 

I've been tinkering with the Mission Editor on a User Created Mission Campaign for the Su-27 and I wanted an opinion on the MiG-21's R-3R capability FC3.

 

Su-27 has the R-27ER/R-73 and the MiG-21 has an R-2S and R-3R

 

It happens when it is a 2 vs 1 scenario where I launch the R-27ER around 14km and begin to crank away from the formation for SARH Guidance til impact. I then switch to Close Combat Mode (BORE) to engage the MiG-21 wingman head on with an R-73. At 4-5km I launch an R-73 head on and the MiG-21 fires the R-3R at the same time. I perform a hard break perpendicular to the MiG-21 with chaff but the R-3R guides and impacts the Su-27.

 

I believe my tactics are the root cause but also asking if the R-3R is that maneuverable in real life. I'll post the mission track shortly.

 

Thanks,

 

Lucky

Not sure about the R-3R's capabilities but, IIRC, the MiG-21's radar doesn't have look down/shoot down capability (I'm reaching back to FC 1.x). If my memory is correct, getting below him should make it difficult for him to maintain lock.

 

 

Rich

[ruddy122]

Iron Hand,

 

Thank you for the advice.

 

I attached the latest mission track and I think I did that a couple of times and it worked.

 

Also I noticed that as soon as you launch the R-27ER and Crank Left or Right it buys me enough time and space to attack with the R-73.

 

Hopefully in a couple of days I will post this SP mission if anyone is interested.

 

Thanks,

 

Lucky

Lone Survivor3.trk

[ruddy122]

One more quick question.

 

I replayed the track I made of the successful mission (lone survivor3.trk) I had and tried to replay it but this time the .trk file had a different outcome.

 

Is there a logic to the DCS World system I don't understand, or is it the computer plays the scenario out and the outcomes are always different.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Lucky

[Ironhand]

Track files are not video files. They are simply the mission with "value added". The added value is that it records your inputs via keyboard, rudder pedals, TIR, flight stick, etc. When you replay the track, the mission starts, the AI does its part and your recorded inputs do theirs. Any random events remain random and can screw up the end result. Also any changes to the program (you record on one version and play it back on a different, newer one) can also alter the outcome. And finally, stuff just happens. Fast forwarding to reach a certain part of the track is also a no-no because that can also screw it up. So...a lot can go wrong these days as the sim has gotten more complex. Whenever I record a track I always end up holding my breath while playing it back.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Ironhand

[Darkwolf]

Let's put it that way.

 

 

You have a ENORMOUS range advantage. Why are you merging ? I would maintain standoff, and shot targets from range.

 

As per my stats since mid november :

 

Missile Shot Hit Acc%

 

R-27ER 27 8 30%

R-27ET 11 4 36%

R3-R 14 12 86%

 

Beyond those numbers - I use a lot the R-27 as a "get the **** out of my area" missile. I won't go deep in my tactics but at least half missiles are just expanded to have the target where I want it to be (or away from where he doesn't have to go). So even taking that into account, that still a good 60% vs 86% accuracy. Also, the two missed shot with R3-R, I clearly recall those, I just shot in a situation where the missile couldn't physically hit the target so my mistake.

 

Conclusion : R-3 series is just "shot once and have a cynical laugh". while the R27 series is more a "lottery" missile - even at comparable range. I would actually love to have some on my Su-27.

 

That is DCS data, I don't take any real data or tactics into account since DCS isn't reality. :D

[dali]

R3 was crap of the misslile. still is. Pilots in Egipt hated it, Vietnamese pilots hated it. All hate it...

[ruddy122]

Ironhand, Darkwolf,

 

Thank you for the advice and how the .trk files work in DCS.

 

I found a pretty good website which helps describes some of the weapons systems we encounter in DCS

 

http://www.ausairpower.net

 

Again, thanks for the help.

 

Lucky