F-15C IFF whilst tracking

[capttrob]

Man... i would be in Lock On heaven if those fixes were implemented.

 

But yes... i see both sides of the debate reading through that thread. I imagine if those fixes were implemented, LockOn wouldnt be a very challenging game...

[tflash]

The only difference between the 77 and the 120 (in Lock-on) is;

 

A, The 77 has 10% greater range

B, The 77 has more drag than the 120 due to the potato masher fins.

 

The sensors on both active radar missiles have been modelled the same.

 

 

Hello MiGMadness, any missile that has A & B would necessarily have also other differences. If you have AND greater range AND more drag, chances are that:

 

C the 77 has more fuel or a more powerfull motor so

D the 77 is heavier

 

And then you missed the not so unimportant detail that the R-77, at least in Lockon, is 10% FASTER than the AIM-120. [see tests by Force feedback : http://forum.lockon.ru/showpost.php?p=144841&postcount=27 ]

 

That makes a noticeable difference.

[112th_Terrier]

apologies if this is stating the obvious but you do get IFF in both STT and TWS in the F15C up to 25nm out

 

In this case a Ukrainian aircraft

 

 

Then you get aircraft ID in this case a Mig29

 

 

Just to get full value out of my 2p ;) on the subject of altitude and BVR, the 1989 Suda Bay F14s took their first AIM7 shot at 5K against the Mig23s at 9K. a deliberate low to high shot or uppercut :)

[capttrob]

apologies if this is stating the obvious but you do get IFF in both STT and TWS in the F15C up to 25nm out

 

In this case a Ukrainian aircraft

 

 

Then you get aircraft ID in this case a Mig29

 

 

Just to get full value out of my 2p ;) on the subject of altitude and BVR, the 1989 Suda Bay F14s took their first AIM7 shot at 5K against the Mig23s at 9K. a deliberate low to high shot or uppercut :)

 

 

 

UKN stands for UNKNOWN....

 

UKR stands for Ukranian....

 

nice attempt though.. A for effort..:icon_supe

 

 

If radar could ID country... we would have some pretty powerful radars...lol

[112th_Terrier]

:( i thought someone would fall for it ;) :p

[GGTharos]

The F-14's were shooting up for two reasons:

1. Sparrows were sucky

2. MiG-23's have no look-down capability.

[Prophet_169th]

Most 15 drivers use TWS a lot.

 

I wonder if the 120 would have more success shot from RWS?

 

I must suck at dodging though. I find I usually get more kills in the MiG, but I die more often also.

 

I have never been lucky enough to evade an ARH with chaff, I usually only live if I decide to turn tail.

[Kula66]

You cant. You need to unlock the target and check. Its a bug that hopefully ED will patch.

 

This getting fixed has been discussed/requested ever since 1.0 ... so don't hold your breath!

[Kula66]

Most 15 drivers use TWS a lot.

 

I wonder if the 120 would have more success shot from RWS?

 

I now switch from TWS to SST just before firing ... not realistic but it works. Of course if there are multiple bogies you're stuffed!

[capttrob]

I use TWS mostly. Mainly because you get an altitude on the target and it enhances SA. In the mountains, i'll use RWS only for the fact that a rectangle is bright on the VDS and stands out. Although ghosting represents a problem with this as a circle can easily appear as a rectangle when manuevering. So, thats more added time to the pilot workload in the F-15 at close range to wait for the ghost images to dim. Sure would be nice to have the proper IFF alerts during lock. But i manage... ;)

 

Cuban 8's, Split S, or Immelmans are a sure way to dodge any bullet. However, if you want the target to remained locked while being fired upon, smooth exaggerated barrel rolls combined with a modified high yo-yo and low yo-yo will usually net a kill 1v1. If going head to head 1v3 or more, take out the closest target and split S or immelman after launch and after the ARH has gone active. The odds are against you when 4-10 sticks are being thrown your way from multiple bandits...lol... so its best to turn tail and check your stats to see if you got a kill in that scenario.

 

I still have a horrible habit of pushing the engagement when it doesnt "feel right". Even when going head to head against 4 bandits, i still press forward. I suppose i could turn tail and wait for some friendly's to join up on my wing and head back in... but what fun is that? lol

 

I also have to get the timing down just right for anticipating merge with a missle. Its always just when i think the missle has gone astray and i let down my guard when i get spanked.

[169th_Helix]

I'm still having a problem with target aquisiton once they break the 20nm range. Last night I followed a target in from 60nm and once he hit 20nm I lost him. I knew his angels and and was scanning the right part of the sky but he completely vanished. Another engagement I followed the target in and locked him up aroun 25nm hoping not to lose him once he hit 20nm. I lost lock and aquisition at 20nm again. This is really bugging me. In both situations I don't see any reason why I should lose the target. In the last situation shouldn't the F-15 radar keep the target? Both times I wasn't out of the vertical scan range of the radar so I shouldn't have lost him. Ideas?

 

S!

Helix

[mikoriad]

It's not even worth trying to track the whole distance. For me I find the best tactic in the f-15 is to run in high with radar on and sometimes music to attract some attention. Once you think you've got a taker, shut it all down and get in the weeds and hills. I'll pop up from time to time and try to get rwr spikes then head in that direction while still trying to stay in the valleys as much as possible (keeping head on a swivel). Normally this makes for a pretty level playing field when you get close enough to the bandit. The 15 driver still has to do some radar gymnastics but you get used to that part. I almost never get shot down like this without getting him too, normally I can get him though. Once you get used to the quick radar juggle at close range this becomes very effective. Right now I use the radar for bait, and try my hardest to make it a turning fight. Now if your over water or flat land that's another story... unload and turn tail, keep an eye on the stats.

[mikoriad]

OT.... isn't it great seeing all the different tactics and mothods people use? It's all very interesting and entertaining.

[capttrob]

I'm still having a problem with target aquisiton once they break the 20nm range. Last night I followed a target in from 60nm and once he hit 20nm I lost him. I knew his angels and and was scanning the right part of the sky but he completely vanished. Another engagement I followed the target in and locked him up aroun 25nm hoping not to lose him once he hit 20nm. I lost lock and aquisition at 20nm again. This is really bugging me. In both situations I don't see any reason why I should lose the target. In the last situation shouldn't the F-15 radar keep the target? Both times I wasn't out of the vertical scan range of the radar so I shouldn't have lost him. Ideas?

 

S!

Helix

 

 

One thing to keep in mind when using the F-15 radar is the difference between the TD cursor and elevation adjustments. When i first started flying the -15, i thought moving the TD cursor up would also expand the forward looking cone of the radar elevation since the numbers on the left side got wider. This is not the case. Basically, those numbers are telling you the dimensions of the cone for that speciic distance. So if you keep the TD cursor next to or "following the target", while in TWS, you will always have a reference of the dimensions of the cone (a measurement tool if you will) with reference to your target and adjust accordingly using elevation only.. In other words, as your target gets closer, and if you are moving up your TD cursor thinking you are expanding your elevation cone (a mistake i was making all the time when i first started up until a few days ago)... you're not. You need to move the elevation key command and keep your TD cursor next to the target tracking him (Thanks Pilotasso!). If you already knew all of this... disregard...lol

 

Next thing to keep in mind. Many of the more experienced MiG drivers will start their notching at 20 miles or toggle their ECM :rolleyes: so you must anticipate their moves. From what i understand, the APG-63 in LOFC is undermodelled and easier to notch than the real thing. So if your bandit starts maneuvering at 20 miles and you lose radar contact, be patient, anticipate his move with respect to his last radar return you saw. If they were on the deck coming straight at you and no turn, he went into a rapid climb to climb out of your cone. Move your elevation up (i like to taunt some of the guys that try this, they will climb vertical from under 1 or 2000 feet, i lose him on radar, i move my elevation up a bit and they pop back up at FL250 like a minute later.. then i'll type "Nice climb" in the chat window ;) ). Do the opposite if he was high. If his last return showed him turning for the notch, turn the opposite direction and start descending at idle dropping a few flares to avoid an ET up yer a$$ ;). After a few seconds, turn back towards him at a lower altitude and scan with 40 mile range. I find that 40 mile range has the best scanning capability (once you have already been tracking him and lost the return) because you can adjust the cone so that the bottom of the cone is on the deck from about 2-4 miles in front of you till about 35 miles out if your at low-medium altitudes, while also giving liberal scan above (i'd have to double check those numbers to be more accurate). 80 mile range is best to use while scanning or the hunt. Gives you plenty of time. 40 mile range is good for tracking once you have acquired the target(s) and they have moved to within 40 miles. 20 mile range is good for scanning through the mountains when you are in the weeds. I almost never use 160 range. And i never use 10. Im still tweaking my tactics, but these are mostly what i use now.

 

I stand corrected on the F-15 radar bugs thread i started. It may have a few bugs dropping targets here and there, but its usually due to your target taking advantage of the weak modelling done on the APG-63 in LOFC. If you are head to head with a less experienced bandit, you should be able to track him the whole way...

 

And once you have tracked your target the whole way... try not to let him know your intentions until your ready to spank him... ;) good luck!

 

edited for typos and clarity.

[Kula66]

I'm still having a problem with target aquisiton once they break the 20nm range. Last night I followed a target in from 60nm and once he hit 20nm I lost him. I knew his angels and and was scanning the right part of the sky but he completely vanished. Another engagement I followed the target in and locked him up aroun 25nm hoping not to lose him once he hit 20nm. I lost lock and aquisition at 20nm again. This is really bugging me. In both situations I don't see any reason why I should lose the target. In the last situation shouldn't the F-15 radar keep the target? Both times I wasn't out of the vertical scan range of the radar so I shouldn't have lost him. Ideas?

 

S!

Helix

Helix,

Drives me nuts too! Best way I;ve found is to go SST at 20miles ... the LO implementation of the 63 TWS is half finished and buggy ... :( And looks like no fix in 1.2 either ... so we're stuck with it.

[tflash]

It's indeed very much the same thing if you play solo. You lock AI aircraft, at about 20 miles it very predictably beames te radar and the APG-63 immediately looses lock. I usually wait a while and it pops up again a second later; even better: it has mostly manoevred itself in a bad position so that you can finish the job.

 

If you do exactly the same mission with a Mig-29S you never have this little problem.

 

It is difficult to imagine the APG-63 IRL would be so bad, but I do not think it is a major showstopper, all in all, at least solo, I have no problems at all defeating the bandits with the F-15.

[capttrob]

It's indeed very much the same thing if you play solo. You lock AI aircraft, at about 20 miles it very predictably beames te radar and the APG-63 immediately looses lock. I usually wait a while and it pops up again a second later; even better: it has mostly manoevred itself in a bad position so that you can finish the job.

 

If you do exactly the same mission with a Mig-29S you never have this little problem.

 

It is difficult to imagine the APG-63 IRL would be so bad, but I do not think it is a major showstopper, all in all, at least solo, I have no problems at all defeating the bandits with the F-15.

 

Exactly. If you are locking a bandit more than 20 miles out... its a given they are going to notch you. This also can be used to your advantage as tflash stated.

 

Sometimes i like to lock different bandits of the "Music band" usually seen jamming their favortie tune in the distance, just to make them nervous and watch them "finger fvck" the ECM toggle....lol